12x55w fluros
- Thread starter muroshi
- Start date
I didn't get it, I'm only asking about experiences, maybe someone uses it.
It's a German or Austrian ebay seller. Richards fixtures look sturdier to me (barndoors) on the other side these are reflective, so they throw more light. They have also other fixtures like 6x55w for intance. But it would be kind if someone who actually owns them could drop in and write about them.
It's a German or Austrian ebay seller. Richards fixtures look sturdier to me (barndoors) on the other side these are reflective, so they throw more light. They have also other fixtures like 6x55w for intance. But it would be kind if someone who actually owns them could drop in and write about them.
Drawback, they are not dimmable.
They are writting:
They are writting:
- 12x55W = 4000Watt herkömlich
- low heat
- 5400k = daylight
- sturdy metalcasing
- rotatable and tiltable
- (max.) B 53cm (97cm), H 76cm (80cm)
- selectable (110Watt / 220Watt / 330Watt / 440 Watt / 550 Watt / 660 Watt)
- lightstand with 2 sectors
- Max. height ca. 3,1m
- Min. height ca. 1,6m
- load 20kg
- Daylight PK-4000L
- 12x bulbs 55W = 4000 Watt
- cable
- heavy lightstand
- Soft-Diffusor
Spartacus
Veteran
There are a lot of these units on ebay, aimed primarily at photographers.
They do not have electronic ballasts so there might be some flicker at certain shutter speeds.
For studio work they might be interesting, I don´t want to carry them on location though (alltough some even offer cases for these units...)
They do not have electronic ballasts so there might be some flicker at certain shutter speeds.
For studio work they might be interesting, I don´t want to carry them on location though (alltough some even offer cases for these units...)
I noticed some very bad seller ratings now. And they were like I suggested not very sturdy. Maybe I should organize a bulk order with some guys to get Richards 6x55w fixtures and to make shipping to Europe more affordable.
Has anyone used his portable fluros now or aren't they ready yet?
Has anyone used his portable fluros now or aren't they ready yet?
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Kids, I'm way ahead of you on that. I talked to Spartacus about this idea a while back and have been developing it. He brought up a number of issues and all those need to be solved.
I have another innovative idea too but that one really needs a lot more development and capital before I talk about it. Idea #1, as we'll call it (and this is mostly for people in Australia, Europe and other parts of the world--not USA as we will continue to serve our home market via a warehouse the way we do today), will be explained below.
Both ideas center around keeping middle men out of the loop as much as possible. Each middle man adds a layer of cost. Eliminating that is sort of one of the central ideas behind Cool Lights too in order to keep costs and overhead low. We will probably continue to not have dealers but will have an affiliate system which will allow others with websites to help us sell, but the percentage we give to them will be smaller since we are still handling all the goods, taking payment and incurring most all the overhead costs.
Here's the basics of idea #1 also known as "Group Buys by Country" (until we get a better name):
1). We organize group buys by country on the Cool Lights Website Support forum in special threads for each country.
2). People pick the appropriate country they live in and post their wish list of fixtures in there. They pass any other wishes in there as we may be able to find other products as well. There's no particular reason that all the fixtures have to be the same. Everyone can have different ones. The main thing is that we get a good quantity to fill up a container and make it worth while to ship via sea to the country.
3). When there is enough people/orders to defray the costs of a large sea shipment (200 fixtures or more perhaps spread across maybe 100 people would probably be a minimum to make the shipping costs worth it for us) then everyone pays for their order. They pay our normal price listed on our website. Payment is full order amount and through paypal or bank transfer.
4). We manufacture and ship via sea shipment. Cool Lights pays for the shipment costs just like we do today to the USA including customs taxes. Lead time close to 60 days from payment to receipt of goods. Manufacturing takes about 30 days in normal circumstances and up to 30 days for the actual shipment.
5). An escrow agent receives the shipment and takes care of disbursing the fixtures to the appropriate people. Not sure about the costs of this and the customers need to pick up the cost of this part. For instance, if he ships fixtures to different customers in different parts of the country, then this is an additional cost that customers should pay just as they would pay for shipping today from our warehouse or as they would from just about any seller. The escrow agent acts in the role of a dealer here but his profit is minimal as he doesn't have the costs of ongoing storage or other overhead.
So the parts of this that still need work are:
1). Where do you find the trustworthy escrow agent that doesn't cost an arm and a leg for their services? This is the most important aspect because this person would be receiving a huge shipment so the temptations of running away with it all are obvious and of the most concern to me.
2). What are the actual mechanics of disbursing the fixtures across and within the country of choice? How much does this add to the costs of the sea shipping. Where would the escrow agent work out of and how would he handle all those packages to ship to customers.
3). What is VAT tax requirement, who pays that, who collects it and pays it to government? Not totally sure but I think the escrow agent needs to collect it from the buyers and pay it to the government.
4). How do we advertise all this to get the maximum group buy customers in the shortest time? We want to minimize the wait between when you post your wish list and when we have enough people to cut off the list, take payments and get busy with manufacturing and finally shipping.
Perhaps we can think of other areas that need work and development until its a great idea. Anyway, you'll get the basic idea here and that is how to solve the problems of first keeping the final price low as well as keeping shipping costs low so they don't add back in and mess things up.
I have another innovative idea too but that one really needs a lot more development and capital before I talk about it. Idea #1, as we'll call it (and this is mostly for people in Australia, Europe and other parts of the world--not USA as we will continue to serve our home market via a warehouse the way we do today), will be explained below.
Both ideas center around keeping middle men out of the loop as much as possible. Each middle man adds a layer of cost. Eliminating that is sort of one of the central ideas behind Cool Lights too in order to keep costs and overhead low. We will probably continue to not have dealers but will have an affiliate system which will allow others with websites to help us sell, but the percentage we give to them will be smaller since we are still handling all the goods, taking payment and incurring most all the overhead costs.
Here's the basics of idea #1 also known as "Group Buys by Country" (until we get a better name):
1). We organize group buys by country on the Cool Lights Website Support forum in special threads for each country.
2). People pick the appropriate country they live in and post their wish list of fixtures in there. They pass any other wishes in there as we may be able to find other products as well. There's no particular reason that all the fixtures have to be the same. Everyone can have different ones. The main thing is that we get a good quantity to fill up a container and make it worth while to ship via sea to the country.
3). When there is enough people/orders to defray the costs of a large sea shipment (200 fixtures or more perhaps spread across maybe 100 people would probably be a minimum to make the shipping costs worth it for us) then everyone pays for their order. They pay our normal price listed on our website. Payment is full order amount and through paypal or bank transfer.
4). We manufacture and ship via sea shipment. Cool Lights pays for the shipment costs just like we do today to the USA including customs taxes. Lead time close to 60 days from payment to receipt of goods. Manufacturing takes about 30 days in normal circumstances and up to 30 days for the actual shipment.
5). An escrow agent receives the shipment and takes care of disbursing the fixtures to the appropriate people. Not sure about the costs of this and the customers need to pick up the cost of this part. For instance, if he ships fixtures to different customers in different parts of the country, then this is an additional cost that customers should pay just as they would pay for shipping today from our warehouse or as they would from just about any seller. The escrow agent acts in the role of a dealer here but his profit is minimal as he doesn't have the costs of ongoing storage or other overhead.
So the parts of this that still need work are:
1). Where do you find the trustworthy escrow agent that doesn't cost an arm and a leg for their services? This is the most important aspect because this person would be receiving a huge shipment so the temptations of running away with it all are obvious and of the most concern to me.
2). What are the actual mechanics of disbursing the fixtures across and within the country of choice? How much does this add to the costs of the sea shipping. Where would the escrow agent work out of and how would he handle all those packages to ship to customers.
3). What is VAT tax requirement, who pays that, who collects it and pays it to government? Not totally sure but I think the escrow agent needs to collect it from the buyers and pay it to the government.
4). How do we advertise all this to get the maximum group buy customers in the shortest time? We want to minimize the wait between when you post your wish list and when we have enough people to cut off the list, take payments and get busy with manufacturing and finally shipping.
Perhaps we can think of other areas that need work and development until its a great idea. Anyway, you'll get the basic idea here and that is how to solve the problems of first keeping the final price low as well as keeping shipping costs low so they don't add back in and mess things up.
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Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
There are a million of these in China. Haven't seen that particular one before. I have access to a 12x55w using my new plastic fixture design. The one issue that needs to be solved is the lollipop which needs some major transformation to make it okay to work with such weight. Even with our lighter design, as you can imagine a 12x55w of any kind is very heavy. One thing that would help would be having the ballasts in a separate box because the 6 ballasts necessary are pretty heavy. We'll probably go with an aluminum ball in the lollipop for the extra strength necessary.
Richard,
Nice ideas, but it doesn't work for my country. Way to less demand. I propably could find about 5 buyers or 10 with about 3 to 6 months waiting. However, it could work in Germany to fill a container (biggest indie-community over there: www.hackermovies.de). So the question in my case is could we save money without filling a container?
Yes, I believe one person must pay VAT and customs, split it and charge it to others if there is just one shippment address.
In my country a pickup can either be done by travelling, because it's very small or by local postal service. In Germany it's the local postal service also, someone has to give you that data (weight). It's viewable on the website of every local postal service. I guess it should work if orders are already in packages with peoples names on them to minimize all hazzle and legal issues.
As for the middleman, it probably should be a valued member of the local community. But I guess trust, prices and legal issues are the reasons why companies usually have a distribution partner in every country.
Nice ideas, but it doesn't work for my country. Way to less demand. I propably could find about 5 buyers or 10 with about 3 to 6 months waiting. However, it could work in Germany to fill a container (biggest indie-community over there: www.hackermovies.de). So the question in my case is could we save money without filling a container?
Yes, I believe one person must pay VAT and customs, split it and charge it to others if there is just one shippment address.
In my country a pickup can either be done by travelling, because it's very small or by local postal service. In Germany it's the local postal service also, someone has to give you that data (weight). It's viewable on the website of every local postal service. I guess it should work if orders are already in packages with peoples names on them to minimize all hazzle and legal issues.
As for the middleman, it probably should be a valued member of the local community. But I guess trust, prices and legal issues are the reasons why companies usually have a distribution partner in every country.
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
As I understand, banks (at least in past times) have had "escrow agents" which are licensed and bonded and therefore pretty trustworthy and they work on a commission basis. I would see a person like this as the best choice. As for the issue of a smaller country and therefore less people to participate, is it not possible to ship to Germany for instance and then have the escrow agent ship to Switzerland? There shouldn't be any customs or extra taxes should there? Wth the common market as its called, I understood that once goods enter into Europe somewhere and taxes are paid they don't need to be taxed again. Just a bit higher shipping to get from Germany to Switzerland.
Unfortunately not. They don't pay taxes among EU (European Union) countries any more, but Switzerland isn't and won't ever become a member of the EU. :violent5:
VAT is 7.6% here. In the EU it's a lot higher. If you ship to Germany they have to pay you VAT there and if they ship the goods to me I have to pay the difference to local VAT again and customs, I'm not sure how this would be traded, because our's is lower. If the Germans even allow this as there is no margin and tax-gain for their government. :happy:
But even shipping costs around 50-60 dollars from Germany (and around 30 $ inside Switzerland). I almost assume it wouln't be cheaper than ordering direct.
VAT is 7.6% here. In the EU it's a lot higher. If you ship to Germany they have to pay you VAT there and if they ship the goods to me I have to pay the difference to local VAT again and customs, I'm not sure how this would be traded, because our's is lower. If the Germans even allow this as there is no margin and tax-gain for their government. :happy:
But even shipping costs around 50-60 dollars from Germany (and around 30 $ inside Switzerland). I almost assume it wouln't be cheaper than ordering direct.
Spartacus
Veteran
I already said that I doubt that such a large container order is manageble.
The idea with the escrow agent sounds worth a try, still I don´t see a lot of gain for the customer over getting distributers.
The escrow agent only distributes the goods in the container to the european cutomers, right?
He will be paid from CoolLights and the customers pay CoolLight?
Warranty/repairs aso will still be handled in China?
Still a container needs to be filled with 200(?) orders...?
The benefit for CoolLights is a huge order, the benefit for the EU customers is only local shipping costs...?
Container shipping will be paid by CL...?
Anyway, maybe we should finally start a "European Cool Lights Group Buy" thread,
to check what others think about it...
The idea with the escrow agent sounds worth a try, still I don´t see a lot of gain for the customer over getting distributers.
The escrow agent only distributes the goods in the container to the european cutomers, right?
He will be paid from CoolLights and the customers pay CoolLight?
Warranty/repairs aso will still be handled in China?
Still a container needs to be filled with 200(?) orders...?
The benefit for CoolLights is a huge order, the benefit for the EU customers is only local shipping costs...?
Container shipping will be paid by CL...?
Anyway, maybe we should finally start a "European Cool Lights Group Buy" thread,
to check what others think about it...
Richard. I'm not so sure, because I don't know your margin, but due the big orders (if they come into account at all) you have not a steady cash flow. Cash is king as you know. I almost believe that you should either work with distributors. Or maybe more likely as a direct-to-enduser dealer integrate shipping costs into your products. You overcharge a bit in the US or Canada and Asian Countries and give Europeans or Southafricans some small benefits. That would be very similar like low-cost airlines do business.
Abstract Example:
Airplane with 6 seats (I said it's abstract)
Conventional Airline: Every seat costs 100 dollar.
Total: 600 dollar.
Low cost carrier: Service isn't included - 100 dollar
People who get their seat two months upfront: 60 dollars each (120 dollars)
People who get their seat one month upfront: 80 dollars each (160 dollars)
Last two seats: 100 dollars each. (200 dollar)
There are 20 dollars missing: Low cost carrier will profit from economies of scale (cheap fuel, full airplanes, only one airline model, cheaper leasing rates, etc) while it has mathematicaly the same gains like a traditional airline, in reality they outstrip them, because of this effect and a better market share (the number of people who buy something increases as soon as you lower prices).
Abstract Example:
Airplane with 6 seats (I said it's abstract)
Conventional Airline: Every seat costs 100 dollar.
Total: 600 dollar.
Low cost carrier: Service isn't included - 100 dollar
People who get their seat two months upfront: 60 dollars each (120 dollars)
People who get their seat one month upfront: 80 dollars each (160 dollars)
Last two seats: 100 dollars each. (200 dollar)
There are 20 dollars missing: Low cost carrier will profit from economies of scale (cheap fuel, full airplanes, only one airline model, cheaper leasing rates, etc) while it has mathematicaly the same gains like a traditional airline, in reality they outstrip them, because of this effect and a better market share (the number of people who buy something increases as soon as you lower prices).
Postmaster
Dark Side of the Camera
Shipping local here in Germany is about 19 Euros for a medium light.
Usualy you pay 19% VAT and arround 12% tax (depending on the item) if you import. You pay VAT and tax on the item & shipping.
Shipping in a container will lower the price so much (in opposit of indixidual shipping) that this difference could be the margin for the escrow agent.
Exampel:
Shipping to Germany by USPS about $60
Shipping to Germany by Container maybe $5
The Escrow shipps local for $25 (19 Euros) the rest is his.
Why should the customer not buy direct?
He don´t have to take a half day of, to spend fo 2 hours at the Customs office.
Frank
Usualy you pay 19% VAT and arround 12% tax (depending on the item) if you import. You pay VAT and tax on the item & shipping.
Shipping in a container will lower the price so much (in opposit of indixidual shipping) that this difference could be the margin for the escrow agent.
Exampel:
Shipping to Germany by USPS about $60
Shipping to Germany by Container maybe $5
The Escrow shipps local for $25 (19 Euros) the rest is his.
Why should the customer not buy direct?
He don´t have to take a half day of, to spend fo 2 hours at the Customs office.
Frank
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Yes I remember now, Switzerland isn't in the Union.
In my plan, you guys shouldn't have to worry about customs, or the container shipment fees. The way this needs to be done is that we and our escrow agent handle all those fees and we eat them where ever possible. You just pay shipping fee from escrow agent to yourself. That can't be so much. Also its really hard to believe there isn't a solution for shipping across borders and to people in Switzerland as well.
The reason I'm negative on distributors is they usually want a huge cut which then forces us to raise prices quite a bit. It's also tough to get them to understand that they have to buy a large quantity to make it worthwhile to everyone involved. That's the reason I've been brainstorming about other hopefully innovative solutions. The one other thing to be considered is service and how that's handled. A European Group Buy thread might well be in order!
In my plan, you guys shouldn't have to worry about customs, or the container shipment fees. The way this needs to be done is that we and our escrow agent handle all those fees and we eat them where ever possible. You just pay shipping fee from escrow agent to yourself. That can't be so much. Also its really hard to believe there isn't a solution for shipping across borders and to people in Switzerland as well.
The reason I'm negative on distributors is they usually want a huge cut which then forces us to raise prices quite a bit. It's also tough to get them to understand that they have to buy a large quantity to make it worthwhile to everyone involved. That's the reason I've been brainstorming about other hopefully innovative solutions. The one other thing to be considered is service and how that's handled. A European Group Buy thread might well be in order!
Cool Lights
DVXuser Sponsor
Considering that dealers usually want a 40 to 50% discount, the benefit to customers comes when I don't choose to work through a dealer and continue to sell direct to customers. To give a 40 to 50% discount would cause us to raise prices significantly. Our pricing reflects that we don't have a dealer system and thats why it is lower than most. In addition, to get one of these dealer types to buy a large quantity to make it worthwhile for both of us is tough as most of them don't seem to have either the cash or the risk taking mentality to do it.
Spartacus
Veteran
Hey Rich,
the benefit through direct selling only exists in the US so far.
As I see it, you could give the reseller a 15% discount and allow him to raise the price localy another 20% of the normal US online CL price.
This would still be cheaper than paying shipping on each fixture from china AND there would be someone handling things localy.
But, I think you made your point.
No resellers.
So let´s open that "European Cool Lights Group Buy" thread ;o)
the benefit through direct selling only exists in the US so far.
As I see it, you could give the reseller a 15% discount and allow him to raise the price localy another 20% of the normal US online CL price.
This would still be cheaper than paying shipping on each fixture from china AND there would be someone handling things localy.
But, I think you made your point.
No resellers.
So let´s open that "European Cool Lights Group Buy" thread ;o)
Richard, I meant something different.
Lets assume fixture costs you 480$ to make. Okay, your old price is something like 700$. Now you sell it for say 850$ In every part of the world, shipping included. You earn more for fixtures sold in the US, you earn less in other parts of the world. But: You are still cheaper than anyone else. You have the simplest cost structure existent. You widen your customers base (no one will drop out because of shipping costs) which leads to more sales and better working hours because you are selling more and rise quality. You ship everything directly from your warehouse in the US.
Instead of paying an escrow agent you sponsor local film forums. In the german part of the world this would be hackermovies. In England possibly shooting people. And it's peanuts against what an escrow agent would take you. I suggest you to pay 100$ to a math student, to calculate the probability of geographical sales and calculate with that your end prices. One price. Everywhere. Keep it simple and stupid.
Cheers
Lets assume fixture costs you 480$ to make. Okay, your old price is something like 700$. Now you sell it for say 850$ In every part of the world, shipping included. You earn more for fixtures sold in the US, you earn less in other parts of the world. But: You are still cheaper than anyone else. You have the simplest cost structure existent. You widen your customers base (no one will drop out because of shipping costs) which leads to more sales and better working hours because you are selling more and rise quality. You ship everything directly from your warehouse in the US.
Instead of paying an escrow agent you sponsor local film forums. In the german part of the world this would be hackermovies. In England possibly shooting people. And it's peanuts against what an escrow agent would take you. I suggest you to pay 100$ to a math student, to calculate the probability of geographical sales and calculate with that your end prices. One price. Everywhere. Keep it simple and stupid.
Cheers