12 Monkeys

English Madman

English Madman

Active member
I just watched 12 Monkeys again after many years and I was.....I admit...a bit confused at the end.

If anyone remembers the movie feel free to chat with me about it.

Its about a convict thats sent back in time to gather samples to bring back to the future to try and eradicate/stop a virus thats already happened.

I think I just didn't get the ending, in the plane scene where the bad guy gets away and sits next to the woman who says "im in insurance"...does that mean she was sent back in time as backup to stop the bad guy if Bruce Willis failed?

And I dont understand why they sent back a violent criminal to do the job and not a highly intelligent person with a strong grasp of time travel theory etc.....

Edit-Also, if time travel was possible, can the past be alternated? I.e for example, if say, one of my freinds was sitting next to me and said ok, I'm going back to the past and I'm gunna make sure that your house was never built,for a laugh, I'll be back later, and I'm left sitting here, what happens to me? Will my house suddenly vanish before my eyes?
 
If memory serves me correctly the women sitting next to the bad guy was the same women who originally sent Bruce Willis' character back in time (she was one of the scientists from the future). So from the information he left for them they were able to trace the movement of the original virus, and presumably then deal with it, in other words she was the 'insurance' that they could finally solve the problem.

They sent him back because he was strong and had good memory - its been years since I saw it, but I think that is what he said during one of the interviews with the psychologist.
 
English Madman said:
Its about a convict thats sent back in time to gather samples to bring back to the future to try and eradicate/stop a virus thats already happened.
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I dont think they wanted to stop the virus. I think they wanted a sample of the original virus before it mutated, so that the could work on an antidote.
 
Ah yes because he made the phone call at the airport didnt he? Then that guy turns up with a gun for Bruce Willis. Still, he didnt even need to die did he? I'm just confused man lol.

EDIT-But didnt the bad guy already release the virus in the airport when he was made to open up his stuff at customs?
 
simonpwood said:
I dont think they wanted to stop the virus. I think they wanted a sample of the original virus before it mutated, so that the could work on an antidote.
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could it possibly be that James what in fact insane? Or the whole movie was about him witnissing his own death as he could of been that little boy also?
 
Well, the movie was constructed so that while watching the movie you could think yeah, this is just the confused mind of a person. However, the closing scenes shows that the story was literal, and that the confusion was ultimately a side effect of time travel. Because the psychologist also became convinced that he was telling the truth (unless the psychologist was a figment of his imagination, but that wouldn't make sense overall).
 
I'm just wondering that had Bruce willis shot the dude with the virus, then, thus, the future he came from would cease to of ever existed wouldnt it?
 
English Madman said:
Edit-Also, if time travel was possible, can the past be alternated? I.e for example, if say, one of my freinds was sitting next to me and said ok, I'm going back to the past and I'm gunna make sure that your house was never built,for a laugh, I'll be back later, and I'm left sitting here, what happens to me? Will my house suddenly vanish before my eyes?
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Haven't seen the movie, but here's the funny thing about time travel - once you've changed what you went back in time to change, that thing no longer needs changing, therefore your future self no longer needs to go back in time to change it, therefore in the future you won't go back in time to change it, therefore it will not be changed. That's the logical explanation. The scientific explanation is that the world is indeed round, we just haven't figured out a way to travel time yet.
 
Yup, that's the paradox.

I'm pretty sure they didn't want to stop the virus though, they just wanted a sample so that they could cure it in their own present time (that is to cure it in the future).
 
Michael Traven said:
Haven't seen the movie, but here's the funny thing about time travel - once you've changed what you went back in time to change, that thing no longer needs changing, therefore your future self no longer needs to go back in time to change it, therefore in the future you won't go back in time to change it, therefore it will not be changed. That's the logical explanation. The scientific explanation is that the world is indeed round, we just haven't figured out a way to travel time yet.
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But doesnt that defeat the whole purpose of the criminal going back in time then? so its just one big time loop...nothing changes?
 
This is probably my favorite movie ever!
The most intriguing part for me was to realize that in the ending scene Bruce Willis is present both as an adult and as a kid in the airport. And he (as a kid) witnesses his own death.
That is why he has continuous flashes about this scene during the film.
Another thing is that the past cannot be altered. Bruce Willis couldn't shoot the guy with the virus, because he would have changed the course of things in the future. Nothing is random.
However, the positive note in the end is that his phone call in the future has worked. They did get the message and the psychologist came back to take a sample of the virus to help producing an antidote.
Really a great movie. And fantastic acting from Bruce Willis and Brad Pitt.
 
English Madman said:
But doesnt that defeat the whole purpose of the criminal going back in time then? so its just one big time loop...nothing changes?
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Well, I'm assuming that 12 Monkeys, like literally every other time-travel movie, ignores the concept of a cyclical butterfly effect altogether. Generally speaking, such movies require you to just believe that time travel is possible and that changes in the past will create a different future that the hero can then return to. That's why I liked the new Star Trek movie - when Spock and the bad guy went back in time, they created an alternate reality in which the film then took place. As alternate realities are completely separate from the rules of logic (which are created by man to define his existence within his own little reality), the film worked without me having to suspend my disbelief... though, there were a few other things that I had to suspend disbelief for. Y'know, aliens and all. <grin>
 
Michael Traven said:
Well, I'm assuming that 12 Monkeys, like literally every other time-travel movie, ignores the concept of a cyclical butterfly effect altogether. Generally speaking, such movies require you to just believe that time travel is possible and that changes in the past will create a different future that the hero can then return to. That's why I liked the new Star Trek movie - when Spock and the bad guy went back in time, they created an alternate reality in which the film then took place. As alternate realities are completely separate from the rules of logic (which are created by man to define his existence within his own little reality), the film worked without me having to suspend my disbelief... though, there were a few other things that I had to suspend disbelief for. Y'know, aliens and all. <grin>
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Somewhere there is a Nobel prize with your name on it...
 
I always thought the virus still got out, but was limited to the area surrounding the airport (Philly/tri-state, I believe). It now would be stopped from going global (due to the "insurance policy").

Then again, Terry Gilliam is poo pooing nuts...so who knows?
 
Do you all know that 12 Monkeys is a re-imagining of Chris Marker's groundbreaking La Jetee? I thought Gilliam did a brilliant job, and yes, Willis' fate was always sealed -- he just didn't know it.
 
CallaghanFilms said:
I always thought the virus still got out, but was limited to the area surrounding the airport (Philly/tri-state, I believe). It now would be stopped from going global (due to the "insurance policy").

Then again, Terry Gilliam is poo pooing nuts...so who knows?
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No. I'm pretty sure the scientists were just after an original sample. Once they got that they would deal with it in the future. That way they wouldn't mess around with the past too much and affect the future.

I'm going to dig out my old dvd of this.
 
simonpwood said:
No. I'm pretty sure the scientists were just after an original sample. Once they got that they would deal with it in the future. That way they wouldn't mess around with the past too much and affect the future.

I'm going to dig out my old dvd of this.
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That's how I remember it. They just needed the original virus to work from to synthesis an antidote. The past was always doomed.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Do you all know that 12 Monkeys is a re-imagining of Chris Marker's groundbreaking La Jetee? I thought Gilliam did a brilliant job, and yes, Willis' fate was always sealed -- he just didn't know it.
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Yeah, I believe Gilliam acknowledges La Jetee in the credits. And that is a beautiful film if people haven't seen it.
 
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