1080p/24 requires render for all fades/cross dissolves?

Gary Huff said:
Do you have the timeline set to Unlimited RT? That could be your issue.
Click to expand...

I've tried both R/T choices repeatedly, and virtually all sub-choice/combinations likewise (dynamic, etc.). No dice.

Sounds like both drives you're describing are quite fast, but I don't think that's the issue. The timeline goes red ('needs render') the moment I add the very first fade keyframe, even if it doesn't actually fade anything. With playback stopped. Most frustrating.

And again, with identical hardware FCPX runs like champ. I'm going to try the PP6 demo shortly.
 
Ted Spencer said:
Sounds like both drives you're describing are quite fast, but I don't think that's the issue. The timeline goes red ('needs render') the moment I add the very first fade keyframe, even if it doesn't actually fade anything. With playback stopped. Most frustrating.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and this is very odd. A FCP compatible format (DVCPRO, ProRes, ect) usually runs really well. And this is just a normal clip, no effects or anything?
 
Right. I've created FCP files boiled down to the barest essence just for these tests: one and only one video clip (with 48k stereo audio). As soon as I add *one* fade keyframe, or CC plugin, the dreaded red "needs render" line appears instantly. After rendering (which is not fast) the slightest change to the fade or the clip length (including the end without the fade!) requires another render.

It is quite simply crippling...
 
Ted Spencer said:
It is quite simply crippling...
Click to expand...

Totally. That's no way to work. And this is Final Cut Pro 7.0.3? All the latest updates applied?

Even if it's not doing good with DVCPRO HD, I'm surprised you're getting the same result with ProRes as well. I used a 2010 MacPro extensively during the first half of the year and worked with both XDCam EX and ProRes clips and never had any issues. The video card was the default Radeon 5770.

Not that it matters, really. FCP7 doesn't use more than 1 core or any GPU acceleration.
 
Gary Huff said:
Not that it matters, really. FCP7 doesn't use more than 1 core...
Click to expand...

Really? I was wondering about that. Seems crazy, but I know FCP was getting progressively abandoned development-wise in its later years. Can anyone else confirm this?

Still leaves it unexplained though: even with one core, I've got 2.8 GHz and you've got 2.2, yet you're cruising and I'm parked. What could it be? Processor cache? Memory design/speed? Multi-threaded 'virtual cores'?

I may have access to a 2009 8-core 'Nehalem' machine, which is multi-threaded (16 'virtual cores'), and reportedly about 60% faster than my Harpertown, in spite of its numerically small per-(non virtual) processor speed difference. It will cost me some serious dough, but if it puts me back in the R/T driver's seat with FCP it might be worth it. I am pretty ok with most of the rest of FCP's limitations, as I know many others still are. Or at least aren't finding a better alternative...
 
To extract the simplest and most important question for me from all of this:

Who here's got FCP 7 running real time 1080p fades/dissolves and basic CC on a Mac (or MacBook) Pro with a single FW 800 drive, stock video card and basic/ample memory and who doesn't? And what gen/specs on said Mac?

Thanks to all for your help in my attempt to unravel this particularly gnarly piece of business. I *will* solve it...
 
Even more specifically re my possible access to a 2009 "Nehalem" MacPro, can anyone confirm or deny its success re the above?
 
Ok, just finished a quickie test of the PP6 demo, and everything works fine, with almost no messing about. Created a new file, set it to DSLR 1080/24p, imported a short D800 clip from the external FW800 drive, applied fades, dissolves and simple CC, and...smooth as silk. The timeline shows a required render (red line), but the clip plays fine without it (at a manageably reduced frame rate during the cross-dissolve). The fade to/from black is fine, and the CC effect has little or no effect on playback smoothness.

It's exactly what I also get easily in FCPX and can't for the life of me in FCP7. Same exact hardware...

Back to my questions re Gary Huff's findings above/Nehalem MacPro, etc., but it's another data point. Onward...

PDR said:
Haha sorry :) . Yes CS6 does support all those features

But be aware that the Mac version of PP seems to have issues that the PC version doesn't. Also you might need to upgrade your GFX card for the Mercury playback engine to work properly. I don't think it's on the "official" supported list. (There is a "hack" to get lower end cards to work, you can read up on it in several threads here an other boards)
Click to expand...
 
I should also note that using PP6 for the first time (since *way* long ago) after years of FCP experience was indeed a very quick transition, or at least so far in my preliminary dabblings...
 
Going to try a fresh install of FCS3 on my Mountain Leopard drive right now which, to my surprise, I'm told I can actually do...
 
Just to be sure, let me go over what happens when I import the native D800 1080/24p file into an FCP project:

-It appears as an h.264 file in the browser, 1080/24p

But if the sequence preset is set to DVCPROHD 1080/24p, in the browser it (the sequence) says:

-Frame size: 1280x1024; Vid Rate: 23.98 fps; Compressor 30 fps

I don't understand why these figures differ. Why isn't DVCPROHD showing as 1920x1080 as its preset name implies? And what's with the 23.98 *and* 30fps thing?

Then, when I drag the clip to the timeline it tells me the sequence settings don't match, and would I like to change them to match the clip, with only 'cancel' as the other alterminative. When I say yes, the sequence becomes h.264 1920x10804 instead of DVCPROHD. Could this be my problem? If so, what might be a solution?

Thanks again
 
Last edited:
Ted, are you converting the QuickTime file that the D800 records at to DVCPRO HD in the first place? I think we need to discover what your workflow is between when you copy it from the CF card to when you import it into FCP7.
 
You could be onto something. I've just been dragging the raw files off the card onto the drive, then importing them directly into FCP. Which works fine in FCPX and PP... But in FCP7, should I be doing a DVCPROHD conversion step as I do? Like I used to via 'log and transfer' with my HVX200's P2 cards?

I will go over this in the AM.

Thanks again
 
Ted Spencer said:
You could be onto something. I've just been dragging the raw files off the card onto the drive, then importing them directly into FCP.
Click to expand...

FCP7 cannot handle real-time decoding of H.264-based video. Even if you create a DVCPRO HD timeline, the video format itself is still H.264. You have to Log and Transfer like you do your HVX200 footage, but then what Final Cut will do is transcode the footage into ProRes (transcoding to DVCPRO HD is not supported if I remember correctly). Pick your flavor of ProRes (422 Standard is probably the best option, but some people swear that LT is nice because the files aren't as big and they can't tell a difference visually) and then make sure that your timeline is set for the files you picked. I would just drop a clip in and allow FCP to set the timeline to that media.

Once you do that, you'll find that all of your issues will probably go away.

Both FCPX and Premiere Pro can handle real-time decoding of H.264 material.
 
Ok...thanks to Gary's (and others') input, I've at least got a working solution: after importing as files, transcode the D800 H.264 clips within FCP, using Media Manager, to ProRes 422 1920x1080 24p. Once I did that, with the timeline set accordingly, all was well. Clips played smoothly, and all basic R/T functions (fade, cross dissolve and 3-way CC) worked without render. Yay! Of course all clips must be transcoded, which is *not* fast, but it is a set-and-forget deal - just highlight all clips in Browser, open MM and let it rip. Then, depending on how many clips, take a break, have dinner, or hit the sack!.

So it's functional, and should work acceptably for me. Whew...

The remaining puzzle regards Log & Transfer, which I tried first today, and which might speed up and/or simplify the process if I can get it to work like it did for my HVX's P2 card footage. But I couldn't, at least initially. When I mounted the D800's memory card (in a USB adapter), then opened the L&T window, the card contents didn't show up. I also didn't find a way to browse directories (is there one?). The manual indicates that L&T will only recognize file types that fit the installed L&T plug ins. Perhaps I need to install an H.264 plugin?

Exploring this question now, but any insights would be appreciated.

Thanks again
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top