1/30 shutter or stick with 1/60 ?
- Thread starter phally
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Barry_Green
Moderator
1/30th is blurrier than 1/60th, but it does double the amount of light you let in.
If you like the look, go for it.
If you like the look, go for it.
helloworld
Active member
correct me if i'm wrong... but i'm pretty sure 1/30 shutter will only blur the footage when you freeze frame. if you just play it through it should look basically the same as 1/60th.
dailyrushes
Active member
I noticed a long time ago with a PD150 that in 1/30th my interlace lines were gone! On freezing a frame on motion, it looked like progressive. But then when someone moves, you do get a bit of a blur compared to 1/60th.
It's been several years now but there was some reason why I decided not to shoot that way, somehow the image didn't look as clean, and I don't think it was the motion.
Now on the HVX at 1/24th it actually looks kind of "old movie", but I have to go back and look at it some more to see if I really like it. At least the camera's more sensitive at that level and in 24P it looks smoother.
Seems to me someone said one of the new HD type cameras (Maybe JVC) doubles every frame on display because 24P looks too stuttery otherwise. I have a feeling it's not the HVX, though.
Projecting films in theaters, I've been told by one of their techs that they do display each frame twice, which is why it doesn't look stuttery there.
It's been several years now but there was some reason why I decided not to shoot that way, somehow the image didn't look as clean, and I don't think it was the motion.
Now on the HVX at 1/24th it actually looks kind of "old movie", but I have to go back and look at it some more to see if I really like it. At least the camera's more sensitive at that level and in 24P it looks smoother.
Seems to me someone said one of the new HD type cameras (Maybe JVC) doubles every frame on display because 24P looks too stuttery otherwise. I have a feeling it's not the HVX, though.
Projecting films in theaters, I've been told by one of their techs that they do display each frame twice, which is why it doesn't look stuttery there.
helloworld
Active member
Ya..
what?
what?
egproductions
Veteran
helloworld said:
If you shoot using 1/30th each individual frame will have more motion blur (or more of chance of motion blur) But also video will have more motion blur. Sometimes this results in footage looking more like slow motion because of the lag the motion blur leaves behind. Generally you are not suposed ot use above and below 1/60th for 30p or 60i or above and bleow 1/48th for 24p or 24advanced. That being said do whatever you want to do. You might want the look it gives but dont think that 1/30th of a second can pass for 1/60th it is noticible! I wouldnt recomend just using it for weddings or films becasue you get an extra stop of light you are lossing (what has come ot be known as) good motion
dailyrushes
Active member
Frame Rate
Frame Rate
On Wikipedia, look up FRAME RATE:
"The frame rate is related to but not identical to a physiological concept called the flicker fusion threshold or flicker fusion rate. Light that is pulsating below this rate is perceived by humans as flickering; light that is pulsating above this rate is perceived by humans as being continuous. The exact rate varies depending upon the person, their level of fatigue, the brightness of the light source, and the area of the retina that is being used to observe the light source. Few people perceive flicker above 75 hertz or so.
These rates would be impractical for the actual frame rate of most film mechanisms so the shutter in the projection devices is actually arranged to interrupt the light two or three times for every film frame. In this fashion, the common frame rate of 24 fps produces 48 or 72 pulses of light per second, the latter rate being above the flicker fusion rate for most people most of the time."
Now, here is the question for you technical guys out there, (like Barry Green):
When is this done in video systems? I have seen some displays at camera shows that were annoyingly flickery. I queried someone nearby and they said "that's 24P". Other displays showing 24P I have seen didn't look like they were strobing. Maybe it was a flat panel display, I don't recall, but I've never seen a movie in the theatre flicker that way, and the above Wiki article explains why, but I'm wondering how this is taken care of in video.
And how I can guarantee that all viewers will see the same imagery, considering they have different monitors, (CRT and Flat)
Frame Rate
On Wikipedia, look up FRAME RATE:
"The frame rate is related to but not identical to a physiological concept called the flicker fusion threshold or flicker fusion rate. Light that is pulsating below this rate is perceived by humans as flickering; light that is pulsating above this rate is perceived by humans as being continuous. The exact rate varies depending upon the person, their level of fatigue, the brightness of the light source, and the area of the retina that is being used to observe the light source. Few people perceive flicker above 75 hertz or so.
These rates would be impractical for the actual frame rate of most film mechanisms so the shutter in the projection devices is actually arranged to interrupt the light two or three times for every film frame. In this fashion, the common frame rate of 24 fps produces 48 or 72 pulses of light per second, the latter rate being above the flicker fusion rate for most people most of the time."
Now, here is the question for you technical guys out there, (like Barry Green):
When is this done in video systems? I have seen some displays at camera shows that were annoyingly flickery. I queried someone nearby and they said "that's 24P". Other displays showing 24P I have seen didn't look like they were strobing. Maybe it was a flat panel display, I don't recall, but I've never seen a movie in the theatre flicker that way, and the above Wiki article explains why, but I'm wondering how this is taken care of in video.
And how I can guarantee that all viewers will see the same imagery, considering they have different monitors, (CRT and Flat)
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egproductions
Veteran
we are talking about shutter speed in this thread not frame rates or refresh rates
dailyrushes
Active member
OK, I got a little off subject there. I mentioned the frame rate/flicker fushion thing because of the stuttering effect you get with 1/30th, which can make it look similar to frame mode on older Canon cameras, except that at 1/30th, motion will be more blurred.
This stuttering effect is handled in theaters by showing each individual (1/24th) frame two or three times. I don't know that the newer cameras do this but thought I'd read something that possibly the JVC did. (doubles the frame to get rid of flicker)
Also, although there is a bit more blur on motion, in a way, shooting at 1/30th actually smooths the image out a bit (because of soft edges on motion). So it depends on taste, and maybe some would like that. (I didn't like the overall look of it)
This stuttering effect is handled in theaters by showing each individual (1/24th) frame two or three times. I don't know that the newer cameras do this but thought I'd read something that possibly the JVC did. (doubles the frame to get rid of flicker)
Also, although there is a bit more blur on motion, in a way, shooting at 1/30th actually smooths the image out a bit (because of soft edges on motion). So it depends on taste, and maybe some would like that. (I didn't like the overall look of it)
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Barry_Green
Moderator
There is no such thing as that flicker in the video world. Video doesn't use physical shutters the way a film camera does, so video-projected images don't have that type fo flicker.