£1000 to spend on audio for University film

G

gb1986

Member
Hi all, i'm not the most up to speed on audio recording for film so i'm going to need your wisdom here. I've been reading these and various other forums for a few days now and it's been melting my brain, every time i seem to think i have an idea of what i might need, it gets shot down on another thread i read so. I've got around £1000 for all the audio equipment, including mics, recorder, boom pole, cables etc. It might not be a lot but this is just a final year student film i'm talking about. It's drama too.

One of my issues is whether a preamp is always needed with the recorder, for example i could grab a PMD661 and an SD MM1, but are the preamps in the 661 good enough already? If not, what about the E44, if the preamps in that are fine I'm saving around £200 getting that instead of a 661 and an MM1. From the sound of things too, an XLR to mini jack adapter is just a no no? So no going straight into camera or something like the H1 (i'd be too worried i'd break or lose that thing anyway)?

The mic i had in mind was the NTG-2, it seems to get a lot of love for it's price and i've listened to plenty of sound samples which seem fine.

Anyway, i really don't want to cheap out on sound, especially as a DJ and laptop producer. But I'm not made of money and this is only a university project. I understand the equipment will last if i buy it now. But i've got plenty of time to save up for fancier gear still.

So there you go, £1000, go nuts with it for me. If you can save anything though, please do, mans gotta eat. Thanks in advance!
 
IMHO whether a recorder is needed or not depends on the quality of audio possible with your camera. If you're shooting on a professional or prosumer level video camera single system sound is viable. If you're shooting with a consumer level video camera or a DSLR their audio circuitry is pretty crappy so double system sound is in order. So what are you shooting with?

In either case I strongly reccommend renting rather than buying. You'll get more and better kit for your money.

Don't quite understand you repeated statements that "it's only a university senior project." At this stage in your life there should be nothing more important than your university GPA. Remember Lucas got his start with "THX1138", his senior year project.
 
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Hey, thanks for the reply! I'm shooting on a Canon 60D DSLR, sorry i forgot to mention that.

I don't know how important degree's are over there, but over here in England at the moment they don't count for too much. Professional work experience is far more vital and i'm lucky enough to be getting plenty of that at the moment. Obviously i want this project to be the best it can be. That's why i've forked £4000 in to it. Maybe what i should have said is, 'There is absolutely no chance i can get enough more cash together to buy high end SD gear'. This project is being taken as seriously as possible, trust me, but i cannot afford more than £1000, i've notice a lot of people on forums over the past few days saying 'get this, it costs a lot more but the quality is there' which i just can't afford to do.

Please please please don't get into why only £1000 of the £4000 is going into audio either, that's not the issue i've come here with.
 
I can''t really address the issues of the preamps in the 661, haven't used one so I can't say. My guess is they would be acceptable as is. IMHO the primary function of adding an MM1 into the mix would be when the boom operator is going to be removed from the audio recorder. The boomer needs to be able to monitor what he's getting in his headphones. If he has the recorder on his person, a typical ENG bag arrangement, no problem. But if the recorder is located at another place on the set, an MM1 on the boomer's belt allows for the link back to the recorder to be at line level and for the boom op to hear the mic in his cans as he works. But I wouldn't go with the MM1 just to try to make up for any perceived deficiencies in the recorder's inputs ... if that's your idea, put the money for the MM1 into buying a better recorder. And don't discount renting - you could rent a Sound Devices 702 or 744 for a month for less money than purchasing a 661/MM1 package and have superb preamps to work into.

If you're going to have more than two live mics on the set that would be another story but then an MM1 with its single channel wouldn't help anyway; a true field mixer like the 302 or better would be in order.
 
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Renting is a possibility, just being outweighed by the idea of buying the gear, which then i can use at any point for personal work.

That's really enlightening, i was planning on having the recorder with the sound op anyway, what's the point in such small portable gear if not? So I'm thinking, maybe just the PMD 661 or E44 without a preamp like the MM1. I make electronic music and stuff to, so having a little recorder like the 661 would be nice for making ambient samples and stuff in that respect as well anyway.

Obviously if i'm saving money from not needing a pre-amp i could invest that into a hypercardioid mic or something instead?
 
A few questions:

Where in the UK are you?
Where will you be shooting? EXT or INT for dialogue?
How many actors do you have to cover? (All actors in shot with dialogue between them)
Any crazy wide shots with dialogue?

I understand that you are not keen on renting. However you could buy a recorder and a SD Mixpre (totally dependent on what you have to cover) and rent your mics.
A MKH60 or a 416 will cost about £15 a day, which is a steal if you only need it for a few days.
Another tip about renting: some houses will ask for cover insurance on their rented items. Which for a single item can run about £60 for a week. However you can ask (because its only a few items) if you can leave a deposit of the items total cost. Last item i needed to rent was a 416 (because i needed a pair) and agreed with the house to leave a deposit. If i can remember correctly it was £160.

Over and out.
 
gb1986 said:
Renting is a possibility, just being outweighed by the idea of buying the gear, which then i can use at any point for personal work.
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Renting could allow you to try a package and see if it's right for you. Better to try before you buy. That's how I decide if a mic is worth my money or not.

BTW, the NTG-2 is worth your money.
 
Hey thanks for the responses, i do understand the benefits of trying before i buy, but i could only rent a mic or two at a time, and i'd like to have something with me at home that i can go to in the moment, instead of having to organize renting equipment whenever i need it. I live in Grimsby, Leeds is probably the place i'd go to for renting too, so it's a bit of a trek to pick up equipment on short notice. I think i'm set on the NTG-2 by all accounts everything i've read says it's great for the money and would be brilliant as a quick go to.

I'm shooting both interior and exterior, the most actor's i'll have to cover is two. There shouldn't be any 'crazy wide shots with dialogue' but i'd work around them visually to help the audio if it came to anyway, i don't mind compromising with my shots.

The mixpre and a recorder takes up most of that £1000, just having them, without a microphone at home too would be a little pointless, because i do like to go out on a whim and film and record things.


I think the question i'm needing answered most at the minute is whether or not the PMD 661 would need an external preamp/mixer like the MM1, if i could get away with the PMD661 and a couple of microphones i'd be extremely happy. After all, i'd rather only carry one box around than two.
 
gb1986 said:
...Anyway, i really don't want to cheap out on sound, especially as a DJ and laptop producer. But I'm not made of money and this is only a university project...
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As you'll read on this forum, DVinfo, Jwsound, gearslutz, etc., the only way to see what you like and what works for the situations you deal in most often is to rent or borrow first. Rather than blow money on inexpensive, prosumer gear that has no re-sale value, try out every piece of gear you can get your hands on first. It's a very subject topic and what works for one person WILL be different for another. Only time and experience will tell...
 
Pete@twenty7pix said:
As you'll read on this forum, DVinfo, Jwsound, gearslutz, etc., the only way to see what you like and what works for the situations you deal in most often is to rent or borrow first. Rather than blow money on inexpensive, prosumer gear that has no re-sale value, try out every piece of gear you can get your hands on first. It's a very subject topic and what works for one person WILL be different for another. Only time and experience will tell...
Click to expand...

I appreciate all the comments about renting and trying all these pieces of equipment first but it's not the route i want to take and i hope people can respect that.

I am not a sound op, it's not my area and i think thats maybe what's confusing people. I want something solid enough to do my degree final project with, and then to learn on and use on personal projects in the future. On professional work i'd more than likely hire a sound operate who know indefinitely what they're doing.

So thanks for the responses about renting and trying gear first, but if we could stick to what i've asked originally that would be a lot more helpful for me.

I've spent a week now trying to find the answers to my questions, it's looking more and more likely i'm just going to have to take a plunge and learn from any mistakes (however expensive) i make.
 
I think your initial question was answered. Get the NTG-2 with boompole, shockmount, wind protection, and the recorder. Forget the MM1 for the time being - for your purposes its unnecessary IMHO and you'll eventually want an SD 302 in its stead anyway.
 
ade4all said:
sorry for the blatant plug but i have an Audio technica 4073a shotgun mic with rycote softie for sale, & i could throw in a sabra som shockmount too, all for £300. The at4073a is a step up from the rode ntg2, pro quality mic

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthrea...th-rycote-softie-(or-trade-for-rode-ntg3).-UK
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Having sold this stuff in the past, I can say this is a smokin' deal for this stuff used (assuming it's in good condition). Somebody (looking at you gb1986) should jump on this.

In terms of a cheap, but good pole. Check out the KE89cc from K-Tek (shameless plug). It's one of our most popular Avalon series poles, and really reasonably priced, AND is good quality. It's aluminum, but there is a graphite version as well, which is more expensive.
 
hi - no i haven't, mainly used directly into dvx100, hmc151 & now af101 & also zoom h4n with no problems - the at4073a is quite a bright mic & as i say have had no problems with the allegedly weak pre amp of the zoom h4n with which many folk have struggled getting a decent recording from the rode ntg2
 
You got any sound clips of the mic with the H4n alone by any chance? I know the H4n might not be the best idea for me film wise, but it'd be a good buy for me as a musician. So if i can kill 2 birds and all that.
 
sorry only did testing with the zoom a while back to make sure they worked together ok after hearing of the rode problems, have not had to use it on an actual project....
am actually thinking of selling the zoom too though if you're interested, got it mainly for use with my pana gh1 but as i say has only been tested, not actually taken the zoom outside of my house, the panasonic af101 has taken over as my main camera which has xlr inputs
 
I'm iffy about buying a Zoom without having heard it with the mic in question mate, it's a fair bit of money to spend without any protection.
 
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