HD100 Battery voltage and Battery changes

E

edhillpr

Member
Hi,

Thought I'd share what I've learned about the HD100 Battery voltage and Battery Changes. Based on the battery voltage shown in the viewfinder, here's what happened using the cheap JVC 428 battery that lasts 40 minutes.

Full charge: about 8 volts

AC power supply: 7.2 - 7.3 volts

Low battery warning: 6.8-7.0 volts

Hope this info helps other HD 100 users to judge what is normal with these batteries. Has any one observed different or similar voltage levels with IDX or Anton Bauer batteries. I would expect the voltage levels to be the same.

Ed
 
With the Swit 88W batteries the info is always the same, 7.1V. There is no info about the remaining runing time, I'm using an A/B bracket but it seems that the realtime display interface works only with A/B batteries.
 
Actually, the IDX system incorporates a 14.8 volt power supply unit which translates to voltage readings as high as 15.x and 16.x volts in the JVC viewfinder. However electronics inside the IDX connector plate knock down the voltage supplied to the camera to about 7.2 or so which is compatible with the camera's system.

The higher voltage is to provide for appurtenant facilities like camera lights that require more power and thus can handle more voltage. What's screwy with the IDX system is that while somebody at IDX decided to design a light that fits the camera's cold-shoe top mount, the connector to the battery is only "right-side up" IF you don't opt to also use their optional wireless mic plate. It attaches to the side of the battery plate with two screws that, when properly installed, prevents the 2-pin light connector from plugging into the battery connector plate.

IDX's solution, if you can believe this, is to disassemble the 2-pin connector attached to the light, reverse the pins, and put it all back together so you can now plug in the light up-side down. This however acts to void the warranty! Just out of curiosity and because I so enjoy rhetorical questions, why didn't they make it that way in the first place? Another in the long line of, "What were you thinking?" questions for IDX. I'd call and ask but we all know how that works out. Try the Anton Bauer solution. No screwdriver required.
 
So Jlames, there is no runtime display on the VF when using IDX, right? It seems to me than the A/B system works better, it has a realtime interface and you can attach more accessories and still be able to use the D-tap to power the light, it is located on the top of the bracket.
 
There's a run time display if that's what you want to call it...an XX.x volt number like 16.0 but nothing usable IMO. This is exactly why the AB system has been the king of the hill so to speak in Hollywood for so long. They look ahead to the things we need and think ahead. AB's Real Time is a great example. The AB Real Time not only displays run-time remaining in the VF, it takes into consideration all of the load factors like lights, "Flipper", wireless mic receivers, etc and calculates the remaining real world run time. It's Ultralight 2 light I think its called or maybe 3 by now integrates into the battery system concurrently with mic and DTS Focus system mount on the rear. I don't want to sound like a commercial for these guys and in fact my guys are using the IDX systems with the new JVCs only because they were free...and unlike most people on this board, I actually received them...from the pros at JVC and not the clods, IMO, at IDX but we have them nonetheless. But when they die, we'll just junk the systems, send the batteries to the recycler and head back to the old Hollywood stanbdby, Anton Bauers.
 
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That's good info, now that the IDX promo is finished and price is about the same for both systems...

My dealer told me that Swit/Varizoom is also developing a bracket for the HD100. There is one from PAG too.
 
You mean to tell me the IDX battery, which JVC is hawking, doesn't tell you how long the battery is going to last? Seems kinda silly to me. I guess I need to read all these posts before I buy.
 
Well heartajack, that's what more and more people are saying; "I guess I need to read these posts before I buy." And, again, I don't want to sound like a billboard ad for anyone, but Jared, whom I've never even met face to face, is to be commended...I mean really commended... for the work he's done here. If there was any doubt as to the benefit of his work or the importance of these Boards or how we, en masse, affect large business, all that was dispelled over the last month or so. They listen. Boy do they listen. JVC sent out 5 IDX kits next day air Saturday delivery to us because 1) they care and are a great company and knew we were down on serious production days but 2) the public relations IDX's screw up was causing couldn't be ignored. So yes, heartajack, you need to read these posts before you buy. No one here gets anything for free...although the offers come in every day. No, we buy things from companies like EVS, evaluate them and report on them and then chuck them or use them in real world production. And such is the case with your question.

OK, let me give you the unbiased lowdown on the systems but let me start with the fact that, with all the debacle going on at IDX/JVC over the postings on this Board, there's alot of rethinking going on about partnerships and the like. I'm not privy to the innerworkings of the companies. I'm just a lonely producer but there's alot of network and studio talk about what happened here and how it's affected the "street" which, as we all now, is where the money's made. It's people like you and me that turn the tides when we react en masse to real-world performance and we've been contacted well up the food chain by JVC and AB knowing that what we say here is 1) unbiased and 2) listened to by the very core of their customer base. So... to answer your question...

The information you get inside the VF on IDX batteries is USELESS for the professional shooter. It might be good enough for Joe Palooka who's shooting mom and dad in the back yard but on a shoot, especially a multi-cam shoot in the field, run and gun when you're hooked up through IFBs and need to call out TTEs (time to end of tapes) so it's one switch-all switch on the battery and tape front which makes post so much easier, seeing 12.4v in the lower right corner of the VF does nothing for the crew. In an arena shoot, we have three main cams situated on three sides of a 310' X 125' arena all rolling simultaneously that catch the action from the start finish line up and through the course and back through the start finish line. There's maybe 10 seconds in between runs and I can't have the camermen looking in the little windows to see how much tape is left on the reel or guessing what 12.1v or 8.4v means. I need call outs so 5 min of tape on one cam means that everyone goes to tape 2 at the same time keeping continuity in post and 4 min of battery on one cam means a switch for everyone. Now, add to that the 4th cam in the pits roving with field-talent doing interviews with the players shooting different amounts of tape than the three arena guys and it becomes even more critical. Yes, TC is fine but hunting for different tapes in posts takes alot more time than loading "4 in the Door" and switching on the fly with TC and scene match. Every minute I spend in post that I could have taken care of in the field cost money which is why exact time codes and battery life is so important. Now, add to that, the events are at night. The field guys don't use camera lights but rely on ambient lighting but do use wireless mics which translates to additional draw. BUT, Camera 4 with the talent is constantly "On the Candle" which uses power much faster so again, it's a One switch All switch environment with Cam 4 calling the move usually when Cams 1-3 have 15 more minutes of tape left or 4 minutes of battery life. Again, I dont care. I want 4 in the Door in post so TC syncs WITH THE TAPES and I'm not having my post guy constantly ejecting one and putting in another or hunting for the right tape because battery power went down. ANYONE who's shot live sports un switched to a truck but canned for later posting and even later color commentary added knows exactly what I'm talking about. So a simple thing like Anton Bauers Real Time numbers system literally saves us thousands of dollars in the long run. Bottom line. We don't care if we have 15.2v showing. We want real time. We have enough things to think about.

But what really bothers me is the fact that IDX expects its customers to actually dis-assemble the $350 light assembly themselves, void the warranty and reassemble the plug just so you can use the light concurrently with the side mic receiver plate. That's just incredibly presumptuous and IMO stupid.

Anton Bauer is a stalwart in Hollywood and IDX comes along and wants to dislodge them. Fine. Build a better mousetrap and we'll move. But to build, IMO crap and then expect us to just take it is beyond belief. I want the little guy to win but when he or she spits in my face, well, there's a limit.

So yeah, the bottom line is read all the posts on this Board BEFORE you buy and then make your decision. No one here has a vested interest in anything but your success. We didn't ask JVC for their cameras; we did the research, listened a whole lot to Jared, Barry and the others on this Board like Stephen and then went with what they and my camerapeople wanted. IMO, JVC screwed up with the IDX deal but I don't think even they knew what was going to happen. Thank god it's not a marriage and only a test drive from which hopefully they can extricate themselves because I have to tell you, there were problems with our IDX power supplies today on the set and I'm really considering canning all the IDX freebie stuff and buying Anton Bauer. Yeah, it's more expensive than free (anything is) but less expensive unit for unit retail than the IDX solution. Do we buy retail? You bet your rear end we do. We get a good deal because we buy so much but it's still retail just like everyone else. And it'll be a financial hit, personally, for me to can all of the IDX stuff (You can't imagine how I hate to throw away free stuff!!!) But if what happened today happens one more time, I'm placing an order to Anton Bauer.

"But Jonathan, why don't you just call IDX and tell them what happened. Maybe they can help you." Well OK, who the @#%* said that??? Obviously someone who doesn't know the now infamous hang up story?!?!?!!!!
 
Sorry. Rant from a bad day with power problems alrady from new batteries. Maybe I should have waited 'till after a glass of Moet or 6 to answer your question heartajack but darn it, why can't everyone in this business plan and build like the guys over at the Red Environ do. If they pull this thing off, I'll be one happy puppy. And no I don't know why JVC didn't do the deal with a class act like Anton Bauer. I'm sure they have their reasons.
 
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Thanks jlames,

By the way, I enjoy reading your posts. Always good stuff.

I have a feeling if JVC had gone with Anton Bauer, there would of been no issues in getting certificates and batteries.
 
This info might help that most batteries for camcorders, like DVX and HD100 are actually 8V batteries and NOT 7.2V . Our facility's electronic department which makes diy adapters that will connect our cams to off the shelf, (and cheap!) 12v batteries confirmed this. Try making an adapter thats 7.2v and non of these cams will run! the adapters that come with the cameras give more than 7.2 but does not exceed 8V.
 
TB's right. Electricity is a most curious sort of thing! Sometimes I think our economy is based on the same theory; the theory that you can call a price $7.20 but by the time Uncle Sam gets finished with it, it's actually an even $8.00!!!
 
Guys, the fundamental difference between the AB batteries and the others (not just talking about overall quality that goes into the hardware, construction etc) is that the AB batteries use "Fuel Gauge" technology, which is more expensive in general both in design/development costs and in manufacturing, the others do not. The benefit of it is the amount of charge going in/out of the battery is measured by its electronic gauge inside. While powering the camera, the battery knows how many Wh was put in during charge, how many was used up, and how much is left. That is why the real time display is accurate.
They developed their own fuel measuring technology a number of years ago. Sometime later the electronic industry came up with an industry standard called SMBUS, which is similar to AB. It is used in laptop batteries and other similar applications.
 
teddybear said:
This info might help that most batteries for camcorders, like DVX and HD100 are actually 8V batteries and NOT 7.2V . Our facility's electronic department which makes diy adapters that will connect our cams to off the shelf, (and cheap!) 12v batteries confirmed this. Try making an adapter thats 7.2v and non of these cams will run! the adapters that come with the cameras give more than 7.2 but does not exceed 8V.
Click to expand...
This is not very accurate. All the 7v LiIon batteries are the same inside except for the capacity and physical difference. Due to inherent chemical properties of the Li-Ion, they all are about 8.4v fully charged, about 6.25V discharged. As they power the camera, they run from the fully charged state of around 8V down to the discharged level; they stay around 7.2 most of the run time. That is why they are called 7.2V batteries. We manufacture the 7.2V DC voltage adapters (Canon, Panasonic) for many years, they are set to exactly 7.2V output.
HTH
Alex Dolgin
 
adolgin said:
Guys, the fundamental difference between the AB batteries and the others (not just talking about overall quality that goes into the hardware, construction etc) is that the AB batteries use "Fuel Gauge" technology, which is more expensive in general both in design/development costs and in manufacturing, the others do not. The benefit of it is the amount of charge going in/out of the battery is measured by its electronic gauge inside. While powering the camera, the battery knows how many Wh was put in during charge, how many was used up, and how much is left. That is why the real time display is accurate.
They developed their own fuel measuring technology a number of years ago. Sometime later the electronic industry came up with an industry standard called SMBUS, which is similar to AB. It is used in laptop batteries and other similar applications.
Click to expand...
This explains why even using an A/B bracket, the remaining time of my Swit batteries is not displayed. Here's another usefull info about batteries.
 
So, the batteries should be stored with 40% of charge. Is it safe to interrupt charging before the Lithium battery reaches 100% of it's capacity?
 
athouguia said:
So, the batteries should be stored with 40% of charge. Is it safe to interrupt charging before the Lithium battery reaches 100% of it's capacity?
Click to expand...
You can interrupt charging at any time. While 40% charge is considered a good number for storage, the difference between doing it or not is very small, so do not loose sleep over it.
 
Thanks Alex. I used to store my batteries fully charged, now I see it's not a good idea. I won't loose sleep over it, but I hope not to spend €250 on another battery for a long time.

That 7.2V dc adapter is a usefull product when using the HD100 without the original power system. If I knew about the adapter before I would have purchased the charger with output power. Now I have to carry this JVC charger forever...
 
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