stop comparing the canon to the hvx

[Luis Caffesse]

I'd like to see the Reels of each person that is having a Coronary Bypass over these 3 cameras. I can think of no less than 5 people on this site whose work warrants this kind of scrutiny and indecision.

While I agree with you in spirit - we all like to think we're one of those 5.... and no matter how much our work may suck in reality - 9K is still 9K, so our bank accounts definitely deserve this level of scrutiny and indecision.

You're right - in the end it won't make much of a difference either way.
But I can understand why people get so wound up about the choices.

 

[MattC]

Well said John,

I can't imagine purchasing such an emerging technology unless I needed to in order to service a profitable need. And in such a case, you weigh the features and pick the one that best serves that particular need (not any need you may eventually have) and you make your money and recoup your costs. If you're being hired to set up a small corporate studio and you need genlock and HD-SDI get the Canon. If you're being hired to backpack around antarctica to film penguins get the HVX.

If you're an "indie filmmaker" focus on your skill set while the technology settles....

Matt

 

[J.R. Hudson]

we all like to think we're one of those 5....

I'm not in this club.

and well put Matt !

 

[Neopics]

I don't see the cost being a concern. In my opinion, if you're spending so much money, would a thousand or two more really hurt?

For some of us, unfortunately yes.

 

[Neopics]

are there people alive that don't own a laptop? i mean isn't it like owning a toaster? everyone has one...

Yeah, but I don't think a 486 66MHz Thinkpad is up to the task of HD. (Heck, not even DV.)

 

[thefilmaddict]

I ate toast this morning. I had to pick whole wheat, rye or multi grain. It's a good thing I took a bite out of each before toasting the entire slice. I like multi
grain.

I am not a camera god and I do not act like one, but I sure do try to be one.

 

[thefilmaddict]

Luis,
I loved the Star Wars Christmas Special. My brother bought it on DVD. It's horrible (maybe the stupidest thing I've ever seen), but I couldn't take my eyes off the screen. Lucas apparently had a lot to do with the special, though he now pretends he didn't. I guess even gods make crap from time to time. I loved Episodes 1, 2 and 6. Star Wars really influenced me as a youngster.

The wookie family in the special is still much better than Jar Jar Binks, don't you think?

 

[myfriendimage]

When comparing the HVX and H1, regardless of the extra cost of the H1, the HVX beats out the H1 in every dept. besides resolution.

I don't see the cost being a concern. In my opinion, if you're spending so much money, would a thousand or two more really hurt?

Since owning my HVX, I've made back more than half of what I payed for it within two weeks. It's a mini Varicam at a fraction of the cost.

I honestly couldn't be happier with the HVX and am extremely happy with the choice I made. Thank you Jan and Panasonic!

Are we talking about the same cameras? How is it double the cost when to record HD you have to pay 10k for HVX, thats 1k more than the H1. Yes Resolution the H1 wins, also with interchangable lense support. There about even buddy get your facts straight.

 

[Luis Caffesse]

I'm not in this club.

Wasn't trying to insinuate that you thought so.
I guess I should have said - 'many' of us like to think we're in that group.

and well put Matt !

I wholeheartedly agree!

I loved the Star Wars Christmas Special. My brother bought it on DVD. It's horrible (maybe the stupidest thing I've ever seen), but I couldn't take my eyes off the screen.

It's a complete train wreck, isn't it?
I think it is hands down the worst thing that has ever aired on television.
And that's saying a lot!

 

[Tzedekh]

that's different because my comparison proved that comparisons are a bad idea with cameras so radically different in price.

It did nothing of the sort. Maybe there is a misunderstanding of the word comparison, which simply means examination or consideration of the similarities and differences between two or more things. "Compare with" emphasizes the differences, and "compare to" emphasizes the similarities. So it's entirely proper to compare two disparate things, like the HVX and the XL H1, and in fact such a comparison would be necessary to decide between an HVX and an XL H1 or a Pixelvision and a Panavision Genesis (if indeed you could buy one).

why don't we just compare the hvx to a viper.

Well, you probably wouldn't because the HVX bears little similarity to the Viper.

comparisons really only make sense when you're comparing products of comparable value.

How would you know whether they are of "comparable" value without first comparing them?

also, some people are gloating over the canon's superiority. well let's compare the canon to a varicam .

Again, you wouldn't compare the XL H1 to the Varicam, but it's useful to compare the XL H1 with the Varicam to see how the are alike and different. And such comparisons are done all the time on this and other forums.

 

[CallaghanFilms]

...I can think of no less than 5 people on this site whose work warrants this kind of scrutiny and indecision.

John,
That reminds me of when (during the height of the "studio system") Sam Goldwyn said,
"There are only 13 real actors in Hollywood..."
Of course he only went on to name 12 of them,
leaving everyone else in town scurrying around
wondering if they where the final name on the list.
:thumbup:

 

[J.R. Hudson]

E x a c t a m u n d o .

 

[Zack Birlew]

Hey, guys, one thing to consider above anything else... all of these new HD cameras are better than the DVX for film blowups.

Really, these are the VX1000's of HD. There's going to be much better stuff with the next set of cameras as technology gets better. The HVX and XLH1 are good matches to compare as the two offer very different workflows. What I don't get is why people are discounting the JVC as a competitor, that camera can do some nice stuff too, especially for filmmakers on a budget and because it has a no BS HDV 24p option. Would I get one? No, I wouldn't because I feel I'd be filming more things for slow-motion/fast-motion so I'll need an HVX or other camera that offers equivalent features, in this case being the Varicam and other high end 24p HD cameras or the RED. But if I were filming things where smooth slow-mo and fast-mo weren't required, I'd consider the HD100U at least. For me, the XLH1 isn't worth it because I'm more of a mobile filmmaker, I like to get camera shots from tight spots a'la Sam Raimi, my camera would be moving around a lot and I wouldn't want to have to lug around a whole Mac G5 with a Kona or Decklink card for HD-SDI or invest in an HD-SDI deck for a lot more money.

And, that's why people compare these cameras. They have their different reasons but some, or many, forget that they need to think about what kind of films they're going to make and what kind of filmmaker they are. We're all not Orson Welles's here, we've all got our own unique styles. What would be a better argument or question is "What camera would be best for this kind of movie?" or "What camera will allow me to get this kind of shot?". You have to take into consideration the mechanics of filmmaking, it's not about resolution alone or which camera has 24p or not. But, I find a lot of people seem to forget these things and like I said on a previous board, if you have the (_your camera choice here_) and you used all of your money on it, where's the money for the lighting, the sound, the software, the computer, the wires, the lense attachments, the 35mm adapter, the locations, the tapes, the actors, the crew, the production monitor, the film festival distribution funds, ect. and so on and so on?

Will this stop people from CONSTANTLY comparing cameras? Nope. There's always somebody new that brings one more kick to that dead horse.

In my opinion, attend NAB and any other digital video-related shows and see for yourself or take a trip to New York or LA for a weekend and check out the B&H or the EVS store respectively. Or order out and rent one of these cameras for a weekend or so, see if it works for you, should be just $200 minimum or so for one rental cycle.

 

[brianluce]

I'd like to see the Reels of each person that is having a Coronary Bypass over these 3 cameras. I can think of no less than 5 people on this site whose work warrants this kind of scrutiny and indecision.

i'm sure you don't know every person here. you don't know me and what my requirments are. or do you?? have you been spying on me?

further, even the most amatuer know nothing should give said levels of scrutiny, this is real money we're talking about. it's not about the reel, it's about reel money....

 

[brianluce]

So it's entirely proper to compare two disparate things, like the HVX and the XL H1,

Well, you probably wouldn't because the HVX bears little similarity to the Viper.

YOU JUST GOT THROUGH SAYING IT'S ENTIRELY PROPER TO COMPARE DISPARATE THINGS....CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS....

How would you know whether they are of "comparable" value without first comparing them?

THE ONLY COMPARISON YOU HAVE TO MAKE IS THE PRICE TAG , ONCE THAT IS MADE, IT'S APPLES TO ORANGES. 40% PRICE DIFFERENCE.

Again, you wouldn't compare the XL H1 to the Varicam, but it's useful to compare the XL H1 with the Varicam to see how the are alike and different. And such comparisons are done all the time on this and other forums.

NO ONE COMPARES THESE CAMERAS--I READ THESE FORUMS ALL THE TIME AND VARICAMS ARE COMPARED TO F900'S AND THE LIKE. NOT H1'S. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SEMANTIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMPARING "TO" AND COMPARING "WITH".

 

[brianluce]

Well, I have a toaster oven - but that's like the desktop computer of toasters


Or is it like the laptop of ovens?

with the greatest respect, we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Please refrain from these little witty asides about toasters. I had a cousin who was trying to make a grilled cheese sandwich in his toaster while taking a bath and nearly electrocuted himself. So you comments are also insensitive to people like my cousin who have had near death experieces as a result of toasters. There's nothing funny about toasters. I happen to be the founder of the NTSAC (National Toaster Safety Awareness Council).

 

[J.R. Hudson]

i'm sure you don't know every person here. you don't know me and what my requirments are. or do you?? have you been spying on me?

further, even the most amatuer know nothing should give said levels of scrutiny, this is real money we're talking about. it's not about the reel, it's about reel money....

LOL..............

 

[Luis Caffesse]

with the greatest respect, we're trying to have a serious discussion here. Please refrain from these little witty asides about toasters. I had a cousin who was trying to make a grilled cheese sandwich in his toaster while taking a bath and nearly electrocuted himself. So you comments are also insensitive to people like my cousin who have had near death experieces as a result of toasters. There's nothing funny about toasters. I happen to be the founder of the NTSAC (National Toaster Safety Awareness Council).

You almost had me.
I read the first sentence and starting thinking - jeez, who the hell is this guy?


hahhaa

 

[Tzedekh]

NO ONE COMPARES THESE CAMERAS--I READ THESE FORUMS ALL THE TIME AND VARICAMS ARE COMPARED TO F900'S AND THE LIKE. NOT H1'S. I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SEMANTIC DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMPARING "TO" AND COMPARING "WITH".

The semantic difference: "compare to" implies "liken to," and "compare with" implies "contrast with." Comparing the HVX to, say, the Viper means that the HVX is like the Viper, with similarities outweighing the differences. Comparing the HVX with the Viper means considering both the similarities and the differences, with emphasis on the differences. When you say you're comparing the two, while either definition could theoretically apply, usually "compare with" is implied. So, a comparsion of the HVX and the Viper usually yields a variant of "The HVX is a $6,000 camera with third-inch CCDs, whereas the Viper is a $120,000 camera with three 9.2-megapixel, two-thirds-inch CCDs, " etc. By this definition, "low-end" (it's hard to think of a $5,000 to $10,000 camera as low-end) and high-end cameras are compared continually, and rightly so.

I would agree with you, the semantic differences between "compare with" and "compare to" are not routinely observed. My point was that comparisons are necessary to the decision process.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

What are you delivering what on?

In other words, if you shooting DVCProHD 100, what are the gigs and how are you delivering the footage?

Just wondering

Most recently, a short film, delivered in MXF form as a data DVD.