First feature film shot with HVX200

Type of film school

Type of film school

By the way, when I refer to film school, I mean postgraduate film school. An MFA program in a respectable institution or even a certificate program with a reputable school. I'm not really sure how good undergrad film schools are. I mean you're time is divided up between introductory film classes and core curriculum classes like English, Sciences, etc. And you have plenty of time doing other things. When you get to a grad program, everything you do is about film.

I think the people on this thread who talk about having a great time and screwing around in film school were talking about undergrad. I've met people from MFA programs at USC and UCLA and they're seriously passionate and focused people.
 
Well...since you put it that way....

Well...since you put it that way....

Hmm,

Interesting thread. I certainly won't get into the film school debate. That's an onion with too many layers...I would have to agree with what several have said regarding 'pimping' for a corporation for the express purpose of propping up a product created with their equipment. It's a shame that anyone would do that, isn't it? Robert Rodriguez wouldn't think of doing that, would he?

Oh, that's right - he did.

Well, I am sure that Steven Soderbergh wouldn't stoop so low as to leverage a technological advance to create work that previously was impossible and then highlight how he had created it...Oh, sorry...that's right, he did too.

Gee...well, sure the Wachowski brothers, makers of the Matrix films, those 'indie guys' turned powerhouse studio filmmakers - they wouldn't hype technology or tools as an additional and creative way to market their story...would they? Uh...well, I have a slow motion bullet that says they might.

Hmm...seems that a lot of 'studio' and 'independent' filmmakers have found creative, mutually appealing and varied ways to partner with companies, organizations and even technologies in order to promote the fine work they had done. And who benefits from this promotion? Not just the filmmaker, of course, but all of the talented, hardworking men and women who labored to create the piece of work as well. I can think of no more noble thing than to give every advantage to a piece of work which passionate people have come together to create. A film/video/HD data stream is worthless without being seen by an audience.

Wouldn't you agree?

And for those that would suggest that promotion or hype of technology shouldn't take the place of quality storytelling - I would have to agree. That's why I invite the posters of this thread to view the Samaritan trailer here:

http://www.starcirclepictures.com/samaritan

Oh...by the way - I am the writer/producer/editor/director of Samaritan - and like many that have posted here, I enjoy talking about making movies too... but, since talk is cheap, I enjoy making them more :) .

Cheers...

Kimball Carr
 
You missed the point

You missed the point

I think you missed the point of our debate. I'm sure everyone here applauds your passion for getting your film done. But the problem was in the way the press release was presented. It was a blatant attempt at subterfuge. Panasonic tried to hide their brochure in the words of a few passionate filmmakers and made it sound like their product can make anyone a great filmmaker. Honestly, did those words that were printed come out of your mouth in your interview?

With regards to "pimping"...

<It's a shame that anyone would do that, isn't it? Robert Rodriguez wouldn't think of doing that, would he? Oh, that's right. He did.>

Robert Rodriguez was a star before he even used HD. And he never pledged allegiance to any specific product. He just said he'd always shoot HD but didn't offer up his first born to the gods of Sony.

<Well, I am sure that Steven Soderbergh wouldn't stoop so low as to leverage a technological advance to create work that previously was impossible and then highlight how he had created it...Oh, sorry...that's right, he did too.>

Once again, already a star before DV. Soderbergh is an endorser for Canon, but surely he doesn't need Canon to publicize his films. He's Steven Soderbergh for god's sakes. Canon needs him, not the other way around.

<Gee...well, sure the Wachowski brothers, makers of the Matrix films, those 'indie guys' turned powerhouse studio filmmakers - they wouldn't hype technology or tools as an additional and creative way to market their story...would they? Uh...well, I have a slow motion bullet that says they might.>

Uh, did you ever read an interview with the Wachowski brothers that read something like this: "We composited the bullet time effect with this amazing new software called Shake created by Apple. The computers we used were dual processor G4s, also by Apple, that blah blah blah... Our movie wouldn't have been possible without these excellent tools and blah blah blah..." That's right, you didn't. The Wachowski brothers simply made a great movie and their creativity and innovation is what sold the movie, not the technology.

Anyways, it's your prerogative if you want to endorse Panasonic. But I think it was the attempt at fooling the readers that ticked people off. Or at least that's how I felt when I read the article. It was a very condescending article and the first thought that came to my mind as I was reading the article was this: Do they think I'm stupid?

Nuff said. Good luck with your film.
 
Oh, there was a point to miss?

Oh, there was a point to miss?

Menchifus:

There is no, as far as I am concerned, 'debate' here. I didn't post to convince anyone that what we have done, or will do, should be of interest to anyone. Our company has created great work in the past and will do more in the future. We don't have to hype the maker of a camera to do that, but if doing so - and it is a breakthrough camera - gives us an addtional angle to market our work, we will do so. That's called promotion. If it offends you or causes you to ask 'if we think you are stupid'....

I am somewhat confused as to how we could be said to be 'fooling readers' by our Panasonic endorsement. If anything, Panasonic has endorsed us - and we are honored to have it. They have made a great product - interestingly, many of you spend time on the DVX forum and rave about that camera - has anyone been accused of endorsing it for posting about it? I don't know how our company is engaging in subterfuge by making a motion picture. Because we talked about the methods of how it was made? That's subterfuge? Hmm....I would advise that anyone who doesn't like that kind of talk, steer clear of any DVD director's commentaries or behind the scenes segments.

On the subject of the filmmakers I raised, I refer to these filmmakers because all of them - and alot more - found more than one way to market their work. Rodriguez with a book and press junket in which he told his story of selling his body to science for funding; Soderbergh in making a DV feature before there were DV features and that being part of his 'story'; the Matrix brothers in seeding (rather overwhelming) the marketing of their film with 'bullet time' talk.

It's marketing - and if a good actor is seen because a movie gets the light of day due to some marketing and that actor's career is bettered - great! If the crew is given more work because a movie gets an audience - fantastic! I hope readers on this forum spend their time enjoying movies, criticing them, or even - if they have the courage - making them. That, in my mind, seems a better use of time and energy than being 'offended' about how someone marketed their project.

That, if I have to have only one, is my point. I really don't think I missed the point of the thread - but I appreciate you marketing your own. :)

K.
 
kimballc said:
http://www.starcirclepictures.com/samaritan
Click to expand...

Very brave to post this here ;o)
This thread will even grow bigger after this: "See, that´s why it´s good to go to filmschool!"
I´m really not into disrespecting other peoples work, but after seeing this trailer, reading through this threat really wasn´t worth the time...
Really much ado about nothing...
(If kimballc ever posts again I also could give a detailed explanation of my dislike, but I doubt it...)
and maybe I should go to filmscholl after all hehehe
 
Spartacus said:
Very brave to post this here ;o)
This thread will even grow bigger after this: "See, that´s why it´s good to go to filmschool!"
I´m really not into disrespecting other peoples work, but after seeing this trailer, reading through this threat really wasn´t worth the time...
Really much ado about nothing...
(If kimballc ever posts again I also could give a detailed explanation of my dislike, but I doubt it...)
and maybe I should go to filmscholl after all hehehe
Click to expand...

If that is a feature then I should be Spielberg!!
I have done industrial videos for 7-11 that had
better lighting, sound, camera moves, not to mention better actors.
I hope this was what you shot for a trailer?? Was this from the "film".
You should take a long hard look at pulling the plug and quit before you sink any more money into this "Titanic" - Harsh I know but let us know if Sundance picks it up!!!
 
We are comparing tiny apples with huge oranges here:) But I will skip that part.

Talk is cheap you say. That's a little rude to the hundreds of professionals that post on web boards. You obviously think you are better but some of these have worked on feature films that actually have a feature film duration and others engineer technology you would want to use in the feature.

When a professional who wants to be taken as an artist steps in to help a company in promotion I don't like the idea at all. It's always a shame and a sellout if you ask me. I think Kevin Smith is a great guy, but if he is trying to sell me stuff I lose every bit of respect. Sales people do the same but it's their job and I respect them for that. He is using film anyway, isn't he?

http://www.viewaskew.com/tv/panasonic/dvdr.html
 
I wasn't going to mention this but...

I wasn't going to mention this but...

HVXguy said:
If that is a feature then I should be Spielberg!!
I have done industrial videos for 7-11 that had
better lighting, sound, camera moves, not to mention better actors.
I hope this was what you shot for a trailer?? Was this from the "film".
You should take a long hard look at pulling the plug and quit before you sink any more money into this "Titanic" - Harsh I know but let us know if Sundance picks it up!!!
Click to expand...

I didn't want to comment on the trailer at first, but since you started it...

I've seen pornos with better lighting and cinematograpy.

By the way, if Panasonic wants to tout their shiny new cam, they might want to consider using a film with an actual cinematographer who pushes the camera and shows how beautiful it shoots.
 
menchifus said:
By the way, if Panasonic wants to tout their shiny new cam, they might want to consider using a film with an actual cinematographer who pushes the camera and shows how beautiful it shoots.
Click to expand...

Okay I think this has just gone too far. Frankly I think that if Kimball put forth the effort to make a film and has been bold enough to step forward and show it, I think that you all should be respectful and if you have criticsm, say it is an way that is respectful. As far as Panasonic promoting the camera, actually it is a two part promotion. Yes we are promoting the fact that Kimball used the camera, but we are also promoting Kimball and his efforts. And if you have a film that has been shot with it, step on up. So far the only films I have seen at the ones from the 48HR Film fest and while they are good, they are less than 5 minutes. We are working on having those up on the HVX200 site in the near future but Kimball and his team did something here that a good number have said you can't do with this camera. Is it any good? Don't know, but the concept is interesting and they did it.

When you have a product and someone does something with it, especially something that is out of the ordinary and yes a feature is out of the ordinary at this point in the life cycle of this camera, you talk about it. Just like if any of you had come to Panasonic with the same story, we would have talked about your effort as well. Just like a number of stories we are in the process of building.

There are a lot of people on this very list that have said that you could not produce a long form feature with the HVX. Well Kimball proved that you could. You have not seen the entire film and you don't know whether any of that which you have seem is final color correction or whether he jut put up the raw footage in the trailer. You don't know.

Okay so you don't like the way that they promoted it. Well so what. The entire tone of this has been outstandingly ugly, and I am dismayed by the behavior of some of you. Just because we don't know your name, we cannot see your face and you don't have to stand like a man in front of people and say what you are saying doesn't mean that in a polite society that you shouldn't show respect. What if it was you? I mean really, wear the other guys shoes for a minute. What would you like to hear. It doesn't have to be "great job", if it isn't, but it can be constructive. It seems that the internet and having fake names to hide behind makes people brave enough to spit on others with abandon.

I remember a time where someone would put up a trailer and they would get feedback on how to make it better. Do this, shorten that, lose the graphics, speed up the timing. You know filmmaker suggestions.

It is too bad I don't know your real names so that if some day you come knocking and asking for some co-promotion so that the word of your endeavor goes farther faster, we can regale this time together.

Best regards,

Jan
 
kimballc said:
I enjoy talking about making movies too... but, since talk is cheap, I enjoy making them more :)
Click to expand...

Niceley said Kimbalic.
thumbsup.gif
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
There are a lot of people on this very list that have said that you could not produce a long form feature with the HVX. Well Kimball proved that you could. You have not seen the entire film and you don't know whether any of that which you have seem is final color correction or whether he jut put up the raw footage in the trailer. You don't know.

I remember a time where someone would put up a trailer and they would get feedback on how to make it better. Do this, shorten that, lose the graphics, speed up the timing. You know filmmaker suggestions.

It is too bad I don't know your real names so that if some day you come knocking and asking for some co-promotion so that the word of your endeavor goes farther faster, we can regale this time together.

Best regards,

Jan
Click to expand...

Jan you are 100% correct!! I truly apologize to Kimbalic for my harsh comments. Being in the business has made me the gorilla I have become. When I started I was a little monkey swinging around, carefree and full of love. I will temper my comments in the future to constructive comments. I have seen much great work from the people involved in this forum. I someday hope to post the great work I am doing and look forward to the release of Kimbalic's film.
 
Gone too far

Gone too far

This thread has gone too far. But I feel I need to clarify some things.

I admit that I was out of line with my comment regarding the trailer. My comment was born more out of annoyance with the article rather than anything.

Jan, if you read my earlier posts, I mentioned that I'm sure no one here knocks Kimball for his accomplishment. In fact, I applaud him.

I think the problem here was with the article. The marketing you did with Nancy Schreiber on the DVX was great. It was subtle. She was an experienced and respectable DP and you didn't have to put words in her mouth to tout the camera. I even heard her speak about her experience with the DVX and she talked about competent cinematography as it pertains to the camera. She didn't just spout off the technical features of the camera. Compare the interviews you did with Nancy and this one regarding Samaritan.

Believe me, I like the HVX. I'm gonna buy one. I've owned a DVX100 and DVX100a. I'm completely satisfied with my purchases.

Jan, I hope you see this as a constructive criticism of your marketing. You seem like a nice and reasonable person. And you definitely have done a great job for Panasonic. But I think this article hit some nerves. Maybe that should be discussed in your next marketing meeting. Because as any good marketing person worth his/her salt knows, we, the customers, have the final say in whether or not your product is great.

And by the way, as you well know when it comes to marketing, you seldom get an honest response when people give you their real names. That's why marketing surveys and polls don't ask for a person's personal information. On forums such as these, people would definitely be less inclined to bring up the negative points of your camera if they had to give their names for fear of being flamed. And it's in the best interest of everyone involved if we heard the good and bad points of your cam.
 
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Here is something to think about. Americans that watch prime-time television shows are more prone to watch reality shows that depict people always putting their teammates down so that they can move ahead. The objective of the reality “game” is to find fault in someone. We as a society are not the same as we once were. We are all becoming that kid that would cut in front of the lunch line when we were in elementary school. If we all cut in line, who is truly in the front of the line?

Therefore, don’t you see this happening in front of your own eyes on this forum that used to be fun and aspiring to read? To me, it just looks like another reality show that will cease to exist. All I know is that I do not visit here as much as I used to.
 
menchifus said:
Compare the interviews you did with Nancy and this one regarding Samaritan.

Jan, I hope you see this as a constructive criticism of your marketing. You seem like a nice and reasonable person. And you definitely have done a great job for Panasonic. But I think this article hit some nerves. Maybe that should be discussed in your next marketing meeting. Because as any good marketing person worth his/her salt knows, we, the customers, have the final say in whether or not your product is great.
Click to expand...

First we did not write this artcle. You too should know something about assumptions, sometimes they are wrong. In fact the filmmaker did not contact us until after this article was posted. Our press releases aways identify themselves as such, right down to identifying the Company and if you have questions contact our PR folks, which is always included.

And yes, indeed I do recognize that customers have the last word and that is made with their money. And the way I read the article, this customer enjoyed his experience in workng with it.

Best,

Jan
 
SamB said:
Here is something to think about. Americans that watch prime-time television shows are more prone to watch reality shows that depict people always putting their teammates down so that they can move ahead. The objective of the reality “game” is to find fault in someone. We as a society are not the same as we once were. We are all becoming that kid that would cut in front of the lunch line when we were in elementary school. If we all cut in line, who is truly in the front of the line?

Therefore, don’t you see this happening in front of your own eyes on this forum that used to be fun and aspiring to read? To me, it just looks like another reality show that will cease to exist. All I know is that I do not visit here as much as I used to.
Click to expand...

This thread just started getting a little rowdy. It's like dodgeball.
To have Jan read and participate is almost unheard of in the video industry. Most large corporations do speak through press releases.
This forum has helped in formulating my decision to purchase the HVX. I bought the one of the first DVX's in Dallas. I got looks and geers for years, until shooters started seeing the results. I do not think any Academy Films nominated were shot with BetaSP?? Any video-makers boasting of shooting the first feature length "film" with the HVX.......well lets say they gotta know they are going to get dog-piled. My Mother use to break-up many a dog-pile between my brothers and I. I have to break up my boys before they go to far.
The dog-pile is over, lets play nice and not break any legs.
 
film school is good and film will never die!!! You guys think arri, pana, aaton and everyone else aren't doing anything to keep film alive? Please take a moment and go to their site and tell me if they have cool stuff going on....

thanks and good night
g.
 
abalex said:
You guys think arri, pana, aaton and everyone else aren't doing anything to keep film alive?
Click to expand...

Well, they are definitely all doing something to keep their companies alive -
every company you listed has either already released, or is working on releasing, an HD camera.
thumbsup.gif
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
I remember a time where someone would put up a trailer and they would get feedback on how to make it better. Do this, shorten that, lose the graphics, speed up the timing. You know filmmaker suggestions.
Click to expand...

Well, the time you´re talking of I also remember: It was a time were young filmmakers posted their first steps, asking the opinion of the community, looking for help, advice and critizism.
Well, times are changing, now selfproclaimed "Professional Filmmakers", simply post "First feature film shot with HVX200" with a link to mediocre filmtrailer and wait for praise!?
If someone would ask for "you know filmaker suggestions", it is very likely he`ll get it here.
And, if people inside a online filmmaking community choose to debate, weather going to filmschool is good or bad, they don´t need to be rebuked for that, except by the moderators when breaking forum rules.
 
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