Camcorders in 2024

Peter C.

Peter C.

Veteran
I've been toying with the idea of upgrading my Panasonic UX90s that I film theater performances with. The 1" camcorder options I've narrowed it down to are as follows:

Panasonic HC-X20
Panasonic HX-X2
Panasonic CX350
Canon XF605
JVC 500u

They all seem to have a very similar image quality just comes down to a usability and a few feature differences.
The X2 and X20 have new high resolution lcd the X2 is the same camera but with v-log, bnc, and timecode. The CX350 is similar to the X2 with not as good lcd but more codecs.

The Canon interest me because I like the button layout and in the used market the price is comparable to Panasonic. Anyone here ever use the XF605?

I like how JVC has layed out their controls but I think 500u is a bit big and heavy. I don't every see myself using the hard drive cady...

Even though I like the idea of having the ability of doing timecode and having bnc out, I've never needed to used it.
 
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Peter C. said:
The Canon interest me because I like the button layout and in the used market the price is comparable to Panasonic. Anyone here ever use the XF605?
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Yes, I rented one for a week in the summer of 2022 to compare it to my Sony Z280. I built a 3D-style rig so I could go around town and shoot identical b-roll with both of them simultaneously. They both looked remarkably similar, but whenever I could point to one and say it was better, it was always the Sony. Plus the Sony felt more like a professional camcorder, the lens didn't ramp, it could shoot f/1.9 at full telephoto, it had better AF, and the variable ND filter made a big difference. I should probably dig out that footage and post some split screen samples sometime. Too little time!

The only other camera on your list that I've used before was the CX350. I was hired to shoot test footage for a big-budget reality show with various cameras, including the CX350 and Z280. It was a very short test. The CX350 was so awful in low-light (an important consideration for this particular sports/reality show) that it was quickly eliminated. We ended up going with 25 Z280s, 20 Z90s, and 18 Varicams in the jungles of Fiji. They all mixed very well in post.
 
Thanks for the info Doug. I know you highly regard the z280. I guess the faster lens makes up for the smaller 1/2 sensor. The main issue I have is it's price and that it uses expensive sxs cards. I need two paired cameras to film performances.

Funny you say the cx350 was bad in low light. It's a full stop faster than my UX90 because the sensor on my camera is one generation slower. Most of these camcorder from the past 7 years use the same 1" sensor and the same ramping lens so they are all not great in low light. Theater can occasionally have a dark scene but it isn't a big issue.

One big feature of these newer camcorder is they film in 10 bit but sometime in things like theater there might not be any appreciable difference.

For good or bad there hasn't been that much of a change with camcorders over the past 8 years.
 
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Peter C. said:
For good or bad there hasn't been that much of a change with camcorders over the past 8 years.
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I'd say the last 4 years. The Z280 was a huge step up from previous camcorders, and probably the XF605 and XF705 are big improvements too. Not just in terms of picture quality, but also bells and whistles, VF quality, AF performance, variable ND, cache, 4-channels of audio, MI-shoe, 4K @ 60 fps, wirelss networking capability, proxies, etc. That's all new stuff that didn't exist that long ago. I'm not saying you should upgrade, but don't fool yourself into thinking there haven't been significant improvements over camcorders of the past.
 
I bought the XF 605 for multi day corporate round table project and used it as the wide cam along with our R5C and C300ll as close-up cameras, they matched well.

We also used the XF 605 for a few long lens live presentations, it gives you better depth of field compared to larger sensors cameras, good for when presenter moves around.

It's nice to have SDI out, XLR audio, auto-focus and built in ND. For the price its a good addition if you already have Canon R5s or C300s etc..

The XF605 also has a great image stabilizer for hand held b-roll but I prefer the look of the R5 on Ronin for b-roll. The XF605 is light weight it's very easy to hand hold so when we have limited time to capture B-roll I'll trade off with my assistant when my arms get tired from Ronin with R5. I wish it had more on the wide side of the zoom, something equivalent to a 28 or 24 would be great.

Jeff Cadge
 
nutmegger said:
I used to own a CX350. Sold it and bought the Canon XF605. I prefer the Canon’s color science and it has much better auto focus. Shot this event last summer with the XF605. Was shot in 4K/30p. Edited in FCP, no post color grading.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flQcEyx0-iM
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That looked good. Funny I'm in the same area (New Britain). Having to shoot up wasn't the best angle, but I understand venues like that with a flat floor and raised stage, if you don't have really tall tripod...
 
Peter C. said:
That looked good. Funny I'm in the same area (New Britain). Having to shoot up wasn't the best angle, but I understand venues like that with a flat floor and raised stage, if you don't have really tall tripod...
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To the right of me were cameramen from the local NBC and ABC affiliates. We were shoulder to shoulder to the left of the stage so as to not block the view of people in the ballroom. I grew up in New Britski. Now live in Southington. I will pm you.
 
nutmegger said:
To the right of me were cameramen from the local NBC and ABC affiliates. We were shoulder to shoulder to the left of the stage so as to not block the view of people in the ballroom. I grew up in New Britski. Now live in Southington. I will pm you.
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Yeah saw Dick Blumenthal in your video.
 
The three cameras mentioned in this thread are segmented pretty well. The Sony Z280 has a lot to offer but it is $7,000 and kind of heavy/bulky in comparison to the other two. The Canon XF 605 has nice features and size but the lens it just not wide enough to be fully useful imho. Price is similar to the Panasonic but more at $4,200. The Panasonic CX350 has a lot of features for $3,500 but is kind of prosumerish when it comes to quality of those features. It is light weight and the lens has a great range. At times, it can look a lot more expensive. At other times it can look less expensive. I have documented a lot of tweaking here in the past to get a better image out of it.

I posted on the NAB 2024 thread that I wish for a CX450 with a more pro-level image and preamps. Have it cost more, just make it better. But I wonder if we will see many camcorders developed anymore. To me, the size of the CX350 is perfect.
 
I believe the cx350, x2 & x20 all use the same sensor and lens, thus have the same image quality. There are only feature differences that don’t impact image quality. I agree one of the benefits of a wide lens XF605 32mm is a con. When you’re in a house or small room can make it difficult.
 
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At this point, it would be a shame not to wait for the next batch from Canon/Sony/Panasonic and see what's up. Sounds like you're not in a rush.
 
Bassman2003 said:
The three cameras mentioned in this thread are segmented pretty well. The Sony Z280 has a lot to offer but it is $7,000 and kind of heavy/bulky in comparison to the other two. The Canon XF 605 has nice features and size but the lens it just not wide enough to be fully useful imho. Price is similar to the Panasonic but more at $4,200. The Panasonic CX350 has a lot of features for $3,500 but is kind of prosumerish when it comes to quality of those features. It is light weight and the lens has a great range. At times, it can look a lot more expensive. At other times it can look less expensive. I have documented a lot of tweaking here in the past to get a better image out of it.

I posted on the NAB 2024 thread that I wish for a CX450 with a more pro-level image and preamps. Have it cost more, just make it better. But I wonder if we will see many camcorders developed anymore. To me, the size of the CX350 is perfect.
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When I was shopping for a camcorder I priced out the Z280. When you add Sony’s proprietary SxS memory cards and card reader it is a $10K camera.
 
Peter C. said:
I believe the cx350, x2 & x20 all use the same sensor and lens, thus have the same image quality. There are only feature differences that don’t impact image quality. I agree one of the benefits of a wide lens XF605 32mm is a con. When you’re in a house or small room can make it difficult.
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The XF605 has a 15X (25.5-382mm) lens where as the CX350 has a 20X (24.5-490mm) lens. Both lenses ramp from f2.8-4.5.
 
nutmegger said:
The XF605 has a 15X (25.5-382mm) lens where as the CX350 has a 20X (24.5-490mm) lens. Both lenses ramp from f2.8-4.5.
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You're right miss read it. That makes it more appealing. I don't care as much on the telephoto end.

I'm looking at the used market where I could get the cx350 for around $2,700 and I saw one XF605 for around that price.
 
I spent a weekend with the CX350. Nice image, overall, but as pointed out not great in lower light and didn't feel super ready for rough&tumble use. And the LCD was a drag. A few years ago, but that's what I recall.

Good thread to bring us all up to speed, but as NorBro says, I'd think (well, I'd hope) we'll see new stuff before or at NAB. It feels like the shortcomings in the current smaller camcorders could all be eliminated. OTOH, we've been saying that for many years...

Peter, please let us all know what you end up doing.
 
nutmegger said:
The XF605 has a 15X (25.5-382mm) lens where as the CX350 has a 20X (24.5-490mm) lens. Both lenses ramp from f2.8-4.5.
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Thanks for clarifying. I think I mis-remembered a different Canon camcorder that had a lens that was not as wide. 25.5mm is not bad although the 20x + 5x in HD on the Panny is hard to let go of!
 
Jim Feeley said:
I spent a weekend with the CX350. Nice image, overall, but as pointed out not great in lower light and didn't feel super ready for rough&tumble use. And the LCD was a drag. A few years ago, but that's what I recall.

Good thread to bring us all up to speed, but as NorBro says, I'd think (well, I'd hope) we'll see new stuff before or at NAB. It feels like the shortcomings in the current smaller camcorders could all be eliminated. OTOH, we've been saying that for many years...

Peter, please let us all know what you end up doing.
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Yes, if the industry chooses to focus on this group the images and cameras can be very refined. IF they choose to develop the products. NAB is no too far away.
 
I'll let you know if I do anything.

I got my UX90s seven years ago and they've been ok. I paid $1,400 (open box). I could sell them for $900. Newer camcorder even on the low end (used) are $2,700 that's still a $4,000 net cost for 2 cameras. I have to be mindful of how much of an upgrade they'd really be.

I was watching some review videos and often they use a cinema or hybrid cameras to film the review and then intermix the footage from camcorder. You can't help but see the difference in quality.

This one they're using c300 mark II dam does it look good. It's a bit deceptive because you're thinking video is from the camera they're reviewing but it's mostly not.

Here's one where they used Panasonic S5II to film the review
then compare that to the actual footage from the camcorder at 8:21

I don't hold out much hope that there is a camcorder on the horizon that would have better image quality, even though you see what's possible with m4/3 in a Black Magic camera or Super 35 in a C300. The greatest chance I thought was if Panasonic updated the DVX200 that had the m4/3 they could give it phase detect focus and include the improvements developed in the GH6. But just writing it makes realize how unrealistic that is given how they've moved away from DVX200.

At some point I have to resign myself to camcorders have a different use case and its not going to have image quality and look of a cinema style or hybrid camera.
 
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A tiny, EVF-based documentary camcorder with a short-range (wide to medium) zoom, trackpad-controlled AF targeting and a manual focus wheel on the side. Will fit in a large coat pocket. Probably retro styling with the kind of manbuns-at-golden-hour marketing that will make you want to punch a kitten. Wankers like me will be queueing round the block.
 
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