Writer's Guild Going on Strike

This is interesting -- SAG had a strike in 1960 that was led by union president Ronald Reagan.

The primary issue? Movie studios were showing work on a new distribution platform, and actors wanted a piece of the pie. (Sound familiar?) Back then, it was the onset of TV. And Reagan helped win the right of actors to earn residuals from broadcasts.

https://slate.com/culture/2023/07/s...-wga-strike-hollywood-1960-ronald-reagan.html

Good find and thanks for posting. Shows how much of a game EVERYTHING is.
 
If I had the time I'd try to explain it to you in simple terms, but I doubt you'd understand it anyway.

Keeping with your attitude I figured you come back with an ignorant comment. If you're going to write something stupid expect to be questioned on it. But you want to be right so just sit back relax and take the stick out.
 
Keeping with your attitude I figured you come back with an ignorant comment. If you're going to write something stupid expect to be questioned on it. But you want to be right so just sit back relax and take the stick out.

You're the one throwing rocks. I'm stupid and my comments are ignorant. Got it.
And Paul F is a "misinformed boy". Got it.

If you have something of importance to say on the subject of healthcare, then say it. Otherwise you're just trolling. I won't be dragged into a debate with you on the subject, but I will give you the courtesy of reading your manifesto to see what grand plan you have for the rest of us. I't's great to hear you have it all figured out. Please, by all means, even though I'm stupid and ignorant, please do your best to educate me. I'm waiting and you can have the last word because this is my last post on the subject, so you say what you will.
 
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Poking at each other is of no value. We know there are two sides, both based on ideologies, and like religion, nothing will move one side to another point of view. However, a non-aggressive discussion is always welcome for me. But let's not crap up the strike thread with it. If healthcare is something to talk about let's move it to the Cafe.
 
Thanks man. What can I say--my drought started long before these strikes, this will just prolong it. I am directing a short in August, then shooting a microbudget feature, neither of which will line the pockets but it will keep my mind occupied.

Just popped in to see how things in ol DVXuser were after probably not having been here for years. Randomly stumble across your post and was like "Holy Cow, Charles Papert is a DVXuser!" I literally just listened to an interview with you from the cinematography podcast. I think Walking backwards may have talked to you too. Alwys the best people here, need to hang out more.. Especially now that I seem like I might have some time one my hands.
 
Just popped in to see how things in ol DVXuser were after probably not having been here for years. Randomly stumble across your post and was like "Holy Cow, Charles Papert is a DVXuser!" I literally just listened to an interview with you from the cinematography podcast. I think Walking backwards may have talked to you too. Alwys the best people here, need to hang out more.. Especially now that I seem like I might have some time one my hands.

Kind of more like a coffee klatch here these days. Some shop talk mixed in with rumbles, like this thread! Welcome back.

Thanks for listening to those things. I think those were the first two podcasts I did, I think...there were a bunch more during pandemic since everyone had time. My favorite are the livestreams I did with Scott Balkum, the first one went five hours (!) and after a directing duo purposely broke that record on their interview, I came back for another which went a preposterous 8 hours. It was like a telethon. Both devolve into drunken nonsense. Why the hell not.
 
Ha! sounds like a good time. Might be seeing a lot more interesting podcasts coming out in the coming months as we all grapple with sanity. Just saw you shot most of Key and Peele, Great show and very well done by the way. I just got to work with Rich Davis on Season 2 or the Wonder Years and he had some great stories about that show
 
Ha! sounds like a good time. Might be seeing a lot more interesting podcasts coming out in the coming months as we all grapple with sanity. Just saw you shot most of Key and Peele, Great show and very well done by the way. I just got to work with Rich Davis on Season 2 or the Wonder Years and he had some great stories about that show

Oh nice! I go back to early 2000's with Rich, he covered me and eventually took over Scrubs once I left. Lovely chap. Great to have him on Key & Peele. Speaking of which--there is a possible podcast brewing around that.
 
Key & Peele has such long legs. My 26-year old PA said "Nooice!" to me last week and yes, it turned out he was referencing the K&P sketch out of nowhere. Then we chatted about the hat competition sketch that ends with the sweatshop worker on his head. But I was disappointed that he didn't know the Mexican standoff sketch, which is perhaps my all-time favorite. "Bullshit! That marriage is rock solid."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHQr0H...ature=youtu.be

My wife and i were rewatching the dubstep sketch a few weeks ago. Can't remember why it came up... My 3-year old was watching as well and started FREAKING out and we had to turn it off. Brilliant sketch.
 
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Key & Peele has such long legs. My 26-year old PA said "Nooice!" to me last week and yes, it turned out he was referencing the K&P sketch out of nowhere. Then we chatted about the hat competition sketch that ends with the sweatshop worker on his head. But I was disappointed that he didn't know the Mexican standoff sketch, which is perhaps my all-time favorite. "Bull****! That marriage is rock solid."

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHQr0H...ature=youtu.be

My wife and i were rewatching the dubstep sketch a few weeks ago. Can't remember why it came up... My 3-year old was watching as well and started FREAKING out and we had to turn it off. Brilliant sketch.

So glad to hear it lives on! Many people have told me similar stories about their kids discovering it in the past few years and apparently enjoying it as much as people did when it first came out, which is a surprisingly long time ago now (we shot the pilot in 2011)!

"Hatz" is one of my favorites too. I love that when we showed it to the audience, a guy in the front row laughed until he cried, a moment that they kept in the show (including my stage right handheld operator Forrest Stangl running in to catch it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEwNuR8bwjw&t=91s

Wasn't clocking the Mexican Standoff sketch, then clicked the link--that actually wasn't a Key & Peele sketch, it was them guesting on Freddie Wong's channel as part of a trade they did as he appeared in one of our sketches. So yeah, I had nothing to do with that one!

I can well see how your 3 year old would have been disturbed by the dubstep one, it is pretty damn freaky!
 
Wasn't clocking the Mexican Standoff sketch, then clicked the link--that actually wasn't a Key & Peele sketch, it was them guesting on Freddie Wong's channel as part of a trade they did as he appeared in one of our sketches. So yeah, I had nothing to do with that one!

Oh. Now I feel dumb. But that explains why it didn't have the same big-budget look of the rest of the show
 
Actress named Mary Neely talks about the downward trajectory of acting pay and living standard in the past decade: https://twitter.com/mneelzy/status/1...Xil8-JksQ&s=19

Excerpt:
in 2016 I was at a feature audition and ran into a friend who had recently wrapped shooting a series regular role on a streaming show

I said something like “oh man that’s what I want!” and she went “no… you don’t”

it shot in chicago and they didn’t give her a relocation fee to move to shoot for 6 months
she was paying rent for a place in la AND chicago + paying her agents/manager + lawyer + taxes and was netting >$6k/episode ($20k/episode is scale for reference) while working insane hours

I realized I was making more than her off a commercial I had worked two days on over a year prior

so I put my head down and kept going...

In January 2020, I was at a commercial callback

was talking w the other actors and someone asked, “are you guys still making money doing this?” almost everyone said no

it was a huge wake up call

I had always known I was going to stop doing commercials at some point but I didn’t imagine it would be because you couldn’t make money doing it anymore

there were a lot of actors who supported their families for years doing commercials who were forced to start over
 
Mark Ruffalo has some great ideas here. It makes so much sense since Hollywood is creatively stagnant anyway and then in 6-12 months they'll have nothing to distribute...except indies...

https://twitter.com/MarkRuffalo/status/1680268624282435584?t=leSAbms4gtuiU5XcUKeTPQ&s=19

How about we all jump into indies now? Content creators create a film & TV-making system alongside the studio & streaming networks? So there is actual competition.

Then we just do what we always do—create great content & they can buy it, or we take it out ourselves & WE share in those sales. They’ve created an empire of billionaires & believe that we are no longer of value. While they hang out in the billionaire boy summer camps laughing like fat cats, we organize a new world for workers.

One sure way to strengthen our hand right now is to become very supportive & friendly to all independent projects immediately. Push every SAG-AFTRA member to join the ones that get SAG-AFTRA (WGA) WAIVERS immediately. The studios have no competition—this will change that.

Share profits. If the project does well, everyone does well.
This will also help our fellow filmmakers “The Crew,” who we love, to keep working. This is also part of #Solidarity. We have to take care of each other.
 
Mark Ruffalo has some great ideas here. It makes so much sense since Hollywood is creatively stagnant anyway and then in 6-12 months they'll have nothing to distribute...except indies...

https://twitter.com/MarkRuffalo/status/1680268624282435584?t=leSAbms4gtuiU5XcUKeTPQ&s=19

This is absurd. It makes me think that this strike may actually break Hollywood since it appears that they are all living in a ridiculous bubble. Nothing has ever been stopping any of these people from participating in the independent film scene. It is easier now than ever with equipment costs being lower and online distribution available. But there isn't any money in it. The AMPTP and the unions agreement with them is the only thing that allows actors like Mark Ruffalo to actually be rich. The AMPTP has the money and marketing, and unions act as a gate keeping organization to access to that money and marketing. The problem is that the streamers no longer really need the Hollywood model and low budget content like Tik-Tok is siphoning of viewers from the production studios. Or at least that is my understanding of the problem.

Sure, if Mark wants to work at scale on an independent production or even quit the union and make passion projects, he is more than welcome. He will quickly learn what it actually means to struggle to make a living as an actor.
 
This is absurd. It makes me think that this strike may actually break Hollywood since it appears that they are all living in a ridiculous bubble. Nothing has ever been stopping any of these people from participating in the independent film scene. It is easier now than ever with equipment costs being lower and online distribution available. But there isn't any money in it. The AMPTP and the unions agreement with them is the only thing that allows actors like Mark Ruffalo to actually be rich. The AMPTP has the money and marketing, and unions act as a gate keeping organization to access to that money and marketing. The problem is that the streamers no longer really need the Hollywood model and low budget content like Tik-Tok is siphoning of viewers from the production studios. Or at least that is my understanding of the problem.

Sure, if Mark wants to work at scale on an independent production or even quit the union and make passion projects, he is more than welcome. He will quickly learn what it actually means to struggle to make a living as an actor.

So what about this: if as you say, the streamers don't need the Hollywood model: make a film independently with the same pedigree and star talent as a Hollywood film but without the bloated above-the-line costs and (studio and 25 EP's and producers) and sell it to the streamers--or as Ruffalo says, create a new pipeline to push it out. The problem I see with this model isn't really with that working, it's assuming that everyone creative doesn't also have the kind of one-percenter mentality that this is supposed to circumvent. Having never made a dime of back end from the projects that I had agreements in place stretching back several dozen years, I'm apprehensive that the "everyone shares in the profits, down to the last PA" model wouldn't get co-opted by greed.
 
I have the same reaction to Mr. Ruffalo's comments. 'We'll show them' statements are silly. As you said, nothing was holding them back from doing so up until now......... oh, except the talent and where-with-all to pull it off making, marketing, and distributing profitable films is difficult, even for the experts.

Go.... go be a producer. Anyone can be one. Show us how it's done.
 
Yea, profit sharing? Ha! Not a chance. It's a nice idea and I like it a lot, but as we all know, somehow, there aren't any profits. It would have to be based on gross receipts and that isn't ever going to happen because they can't do profit shareing based on the gross. It has to be net.
 
Yea, profit sharing? Ha! Not a chance. It's a nice idea and I like it a lot, but as we all know, somehow, there aren't any profits. It would have to be based on gross receipts and that isn't ever going to happen because they can't do profit shareing based on the gross. It has to be net.

relatedly, that's one of the sag demands and it is based on gross

SAG-AFTRA wants 2% of the revenue that each show generates for a streaming platform to be paid to performers. The union would use Content Valuation, a measurement tool introduced last fall by Parrot Analytics, to determine how much each show is worth to the platform.
https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/sag-actor-strike-contract-sticking-points-1235670826/
 
Most interesting. Well, that's how tech startup companies work. The worker bees usually get maybe 5% of the pot. But they only make money on it when the stock makes money. But then, everyone should get a cut of the pie; IATSE, DGA, SAG, WGA.

I'd like to understand how revenue is shared between shows on a streaming channel. They make a bunch of shows and they have a number of subscribers. So do they simply give a percentage of the revenue and assign it to a show based on how many views it has? What would the definition be of a 'profitable' vs a non-profitable' show be? Not that it matters if we are talking gross. But it certainly would matter to the producers who would have to give 2% to SAG.
 
This is absurd. It makes me think that this strike may actually break Hollywood since it appears that they are all living in a ridiculous bubble.

What Ruffalo is describing is already happening, just not at scale. Productions that receive union waivers to continue work are going to benefit from greater availability of talent + less competition for distribution.

Nothing has ever been stopping any of these people from participating in the independent film scene.

Opportunity cost. Before, they had the opportunity to make real money in the studio system. At the moment, they are not sacrificing that opportunity by working on indies.

It is easier now than ever with equipment costs being lower and online distribution available. But there isn't any money in it. The AMPTP and the unions agreement with them is the only thing that allows actors like Mark Ruffalo to actually be rich. The AMPTP has the money and marketing, and unions act as a gate keeping organization to access to that money and marketing.

In theory, they would sell their finished films to the large distributors and get marketing that way, no? If they sold to Netflix, for example, I'm not even sure a lot of that stuff gets advertised. It just gets pushed out to subscribers, no? I feel like only the tentpoles get advertised?

The problem is that the streamers no longer really need the Hollywood model and low budget content like Tik-Tok is siphoning of viewers from the production studios. Or at least that is my understanding of the problem.

I don't think this is actually true.

2010:
Netflix revenue - $2B
global box office - $32B

2019:
Netflix revenue - $20B
global box office - $42.5B

2022:
Netflix revenue - $31.6B
global box office - $26B

Disney+ is now making over $8B/yr revenue. Plus other streamers. So, it looks to me like scripted narrative revenue for combined theatrical/streaming is stable or growing. Cable/broadcast TV is contracting but they show more than just scripted narrative.

I think the real problem here is that Netflix has monopoly-like influence/power. Amazon uses Prime Video to move the rest of its merchandise. It's not really vulnerable to disruptions in the media business.

And also, the performance metrics and revenue/profit for streamed movies/TV are opaque and not public knowledge.

Sure, if Mark wants to work at scale on an independent production or even quit the union and make passion projects, he is more than welcome. He will quickly learn what it actually means to struggle to make a living as an actor.

I'm sure some actors would quit the industry without the possibility of riches, but a lot of people are surely just hooked on the craft. Harrison Ford said: “I never thought that I would be a leading man,” he revealed. “I really was just hoping I could make a living as an actor and not have to supplement my income with some other side hustle… I thought I would be lucky to have a character part on a regular TV show.”

“No one ever believes this, but I never wanted to be rich and famous,” Ford added. “I just wanted to be an actor.”
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/harrison-ford-never-wished-rich-famous-movie-star/

I don't think it's likely that we'll see an independent production pipeline rise to rival the corporate behemoths. But crazier things have happened. Revolutions are often sparked by unbearable circumstances. If it becomes impossible for actors to make a living as corporate servants, it becomes more attractive to embrace a quasi-socialist model of production.

My guess is that if it actually worked out, big distributors would find a way to screw them with poison pill purchase contracts or simply blacklisting their work.
 
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