Bassman2003
Veteran
Good find and thanks for posting. Shows how much of a game EVERYTHING is.
Writer's Guild Going on Strike
- Thread starter Paul F
- Start date
Good find and thanks for posting. Shows how much of a game EVERYTHING is.
Keeping with your attitude I figured you come back with an ignorant comment. If you're going to write something stupid expect to be questioned on it. But you want to be right so just sit back relax and take the stick out.
Doug Jensen
Carbonite Member
You're the one throwing rocks. I'm stupid and my comments are ignorant. Got it.
And Paul F is a "misinformed boy". Got it.
If you have something of importance to say on the subject of healthcare, then say it. Otherwise you're just trolling. I won't be dragged into a debate with you on the subject, but I will give you the courtesy of reading your manifesto to see what grand plan you have for the rest of us. I't's great to hear you have it all figured out. Please, by all means, even though I'm stupid and ignorant, please do your best to educate me. I'm waiting and you can have the last word because this is my last post on the subject, so you say what you will.
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Poking at each other is of no value. We know there are two sides, both based on ideologies, and like religion, nothing will move one side to another point of view. However, a non-aggressive discussion is always welcome for me. But let's not crap up the strike thread with it. If healthcare is something to talk about let's move it to the Cafe.
waefre
Well-known member
Just popped in to see how things in ol DVXuser were after probably not having been here for years. Randomly stumble across your post and was like "Holy Cow, Charles Papert is a DVXuser!" I literally just listened to an interview with you from the cinematography podcast. I think Walking backwards may have talked to you too. Alwys the best people here, need to hang out more.. Especially now that I seem like I might have some time one my hands.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Kind of more like a coffee klatch here these days. Some shop talk mixed in with rumbles, like this thread! Welcome back.
Thanks for listening to those things. I think those were the first two podcasts I did, I think...there were a bunch more during pandemic since everyone had time. My favorite are the livestreams I did with Scott Balkum, the first one went five hours (!) and after a directing duo purposely broke that record on their interview, I came back for another which went a preposterous 8 hours. It was like a telethon. Both devolve into drunken nonsense. Why the hell not.
waefre
Well-known member
Ha! sounds like a good time. Might be seeing a lot more interesting podcasts coming out in the coming months as we all grapple with sanity. Just saw you shot most of Key and Peele, Great show and very well done by the way. I just got to work with Rich Davis on Season 2 or the Wonder Years and he had some great stories about that show
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Oh nice! I go back to early 2000's with Rich, he covered me and eventually took over Scrubs once I left. Lovely chap. Great to have him on Key & Peele. Speaking of which--there is a possible podcast brewing around that.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Key & Peele has such long legs. My 26-year old PA said "Nooice!" to me last week and yes, it turned out he was referencing the K&P sketch out of nowhere. Then we chatted about the hat competition sketch that ends with the sweatshop worker on his head. But I was disappointed that he didn't know the Mexican standoff sketch, which is perhaps my all-time favorite. "Bullshit! That marriage is rock solid."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHQr0H...ature=youtu.be
My wife and i were rewatching the dubstep sketch a few weeks ago. Can't remember why it came up... My 3-year old was watching as well and started FREAKING out and we had to turn it off. Brilliant sketch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IHQr0H...ature=youtu.be
My wife and i were rewatching the dubstep sketch a few weeks ago. Can't remember why it came up... My 3-year old was watching as well and started FREAKING out and we had to turn it off. Brilliant sketch.
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CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
So glad to hear it lives on! Many people have told me similar stories about their kids discovering it in the past few years and apparently enjoying it as much as people did when it first came out, which is a surprisingly long time ago now (we shot the pilot in 2011)!
"Hatz" is one of my favorites too. I love that when we showed it to the audience, a guy in the front row laughed until he cried, a moment that they kept in the show (including my stage right handheld operator Forrest Stangl running in to catch it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEwNuR8bwjw&t=91s
Wasn't clocking the Mexican Standoff sketch, then clicked the link--that actually wasn't a Key & Peele sketch, it was them guesting on Freddie Wong's channel as part of a trade they did as he appeared in one of our sketches. So yeah, I had nothing to do with that one!
I can well see how your 3 year old would have been disturbed by the dubstep one, it is pretty damn freaky!
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Oh. Now I feel dumb. But that explains why it didn't have the same big-budget look of the rest of the show
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Actress named Mary Neely talks about the downward trajectory of acting pay and living standard in the past decade: https://twitter.com/mneelzy/status/1...Xil8-JksQ&s=19
Excerpt:
Excerpt:
ahalpert
Major Contributor
Mark Ruffalo has some great ideas here. It makes so much sense since Hollywood is creatively stagnant anyway and then in 6-12 months they'll have nothing to distribute...except indies...
https://twitter.com/MarkRuffalo/status/1680268624282435584?t=leSAbms4gtuiU5XcUKeTPQ&s=19
https://twitter.com/MarkRuffalo/status/1680268624282435584?t=leSAbms4gtuiU5XcUKeTPQ&s=19
cpreston
Veteran
This is absurd. It makes me think that this strike may actually break Hollywood since it appears that they are all living in a ridiculous bubble. Nothing has ever been stopping any of these people from participating in the independent film scene. It is easier now than ever with equipment costs being lower and online distribution available. But there isn't any money in it. The AMPTP and the unions agreement with them is the only thing that allows actors like Mark Ruffalo to actually be rich. The AMPTP has the money and marketing, and unions act as a gate keeping organization to access to that money and marketing. The problem is that the streamers no longer really need the Hollywood model and low budget content like Tik-Tok is siphoning of viewers from the production studios. Or at least that is my understanding of the problem.
Sure, if Mark wants to work at scale on an independent production or even quit the union and make passion projects, he is more than welcome. He will quickly learn what it actually means to struggle to make a living as an actor.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
So what about this: if as you say, the streamers don't need the Hollywood model: make a film independently with the same pedigree and star talent as a Hollywood film but without the bloated above-the-line costs and (studio and 25 EP's and producers) and sell it to the streamers--or as Ruffalo says, create a new pipeline to push it out. The problem I see with this model isn't really with that working, it's assuming that everyone creative doesn't also have the kind of one-percenter mentality that this is supposed to circumvent. Having never made a dime of back end from the projects that I had agreements in place stretching back several dozen years, I'm apprehensive that the "everyone shares in the profits, down to the last PA" model wouldn't get co-opted by greed.
I have the same reaction to Mr. Ruffalo's comments. 'We'll show them' statements are silly. As you said, nothing was holding them back from doing so up until now......... oh, except the talent and where-with-all to pull it off making, marketing, and distributing profitable films is difficult, even for the experts.
Go.... go be a producer. Anyone can be one. Show us how it's done.
Go.... go be a producer. Anyone can be one. Show us how it's done.
Yea, profit sharing? Ha! Not a chance. It's a nice idea and I like it a lot, but as we all know, somehow, there aren't any profits. It would have to be based on gross receipts and that isn't ever going to happen because they can't do profit shareing based on the gross. It has to be net.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
relatedly, that's one of the sag demands and it is based on gross
https://variety.com/2023/biz/news/sag-actor-strike-contract-sticking-points-1235670826/
Most interesting. Well, that's how tech startup companies work. The worker bees usually get maybe 5% of the pot. But they only make money on it when the stock makes money. But then, everyone should get a cut of the pie; IATSE, DGA, SAG, WGA.
I'd like to understand how revenue is shared between shows on a streaming channel. They make a bunch of shows and they have a number of subscribers. So do they simply give a percentage of the revenue and assign it to a show based on how many views it has? What would the definition be of a 'profitable' vs a non-profitable' show be? Not that it matters if we are talking gross. But it certainly would matter to the producers who would have to give 2% to SAG.
I'd like to understand how revenue is shared between shows on a streaming channel. They make a bunch of shows and they have a number of subscribers. So do they simply give a percentage of the revenue and assign it to a show based on how many views it has? What would the definition be of a 'profitable' vs a non-profitable' show be? Not that it matters if we are talking gross. But it certainly would matter to the producers who would have to give 2% to SAG.
ahalpert
Major Contributor
What Ruffalo is describing is already happening, just not at scale. Productions that receive union waivers to continue work are going to benefit from greater availability of talent + less competition for distribution.
Opportunity cost. Before, they had the opportunity to make real money in the studio system. At the moment, they are not sacrificing that opportunity by working on indies.
In theory, they would sell their finished films to the large distributors and get marketing that way, no? If they sold to Netflix, for example, I'm not even sure a lot of that stuff gets advertised. It just gets pushed out to subscribers, no? I feel like only the tentpoles get advertised?
I don't think this is actually true.
2010:
Netflix revenue - $2B
global box office - $32B
2019:
Netflix revenue - $20B
global box office - $42.5B
2022:
Netflix revenue - $31.6B
global box office - $26B
Disney+ is now making over $8B/yr revenue. Plus other streamers. So, it looks to me like scripted narrative revenue for combined theatrical/streaming is stable or growing. Cable/broadcast TV is contracting but they show more than just scripted narrative.
I think the real problem here is that Netflix has monopoly-like influence/power. Amazon uses Prime Video to move the rest of its merchandise. It's not really vulnerable to disruptions in the media business.
And also, the performance metrics and revenue/profit for streamed movies/TV are opaque and not public knowledge.
I'm sure some actors would quit the industry without the possibility of riches, but a lot of people are surely just hooked on the craft. Harrison Ford said: “I never thought that I would be a leading man,” he revealed. “I really was just hoping I could make a living as an actor and not have to supplement my income with some other side hustle… I thought I would be lucky to have a character part on a regular TV show.”
“No one ever believes this, but I never wanted to be rich and famous,” Ford added. “I just wanted to be an actor.”
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/harrison-ford-never-wished-rich-famous-movie-star/
I don't think it's likely that we'll see an independent production pipeline rise to rival the corporate behemoths. But crazier things have happened. Revolutions are often sparked by unbearable circumstances. If it becomes impossible for actors to make a living as corporate servants, it becomes more attractive to embrace a quasi-socialist model of production.
My guess is that if it actually worked out, big distributors would find a way to screw them with poison pill purchase contracts or simply blacklisting their work.