Writer's Guild Going on Strike

[CharlesPapert]

charles Papert... thought of you last night when I saw actors also going on strike. Hope you are able to enjoy your summer vacation - as opposed to suffer thru it.

Thanks man. What can I say--my drought started long before these strikes, this will just prolong it. I am directing a short in August, then shooting a microbudget feature, neither of which will line the pockets but it will keep my mind occupied.

 

[Paul F]

Here is the AMPTP version of their AI proposal - not directly from them....."AI proposal which protects performers’ digital likenesses, including a requirement for performer’s consent for the creation and use of digital replicas or for digital alterations of a performance"

AMPTP says the perpetuity-likeness statements made by SAG are false. So as usual, sides are posturing without anyone showing the actual text of AMPTP's proposal. I suspect no journalist/writer in media is on the producer's side, so getting clear information is difficult.

 

[ahalpert]

That's good information Doug. Yes, exactly. The stuff I read about England and Canada have me not wanting it. I've never talked to anyone who actually has it. So perhaps the filter of the press has had the effect they were looking for.
.

On the subject of American healthcare, I came across these anecdotes on Twitter. I can't vouch for their authenticity or truth. (But I've heard similar stories before. And I know of a woman who had stomach pain in her early 60s. Waited until she had Medicare to get it checked out but by then the cancer had progressed too far to treat.) The only thing that doesn't make sense to me about the first story is shouldn't the dad have qualified for Medicare at that age.

This is pretty much what happened to my dad, the man spent 55-60 years working day and night hardest worker you ever would meet. 12-hour days owned multiple businesses over his life. We both did hard back-breaking work breathing chemicals we shouldn't, lifting things that had to be moved, rolling around on concrete up and under trucks and equipment.

He spent his last 5 years with cancer, medical bills wiped out everything he ever worked for and he spent his last years suffering.

I'm reminded of this cartoon

 

[ahalpert]

From the NYT article today about the stike,

Hollywood’s two traditional businesses, the box office and television channels, are both badly broken....

The number of movie tickets sold globally may reach 7.2 billion in 2027, according to a recent report from the accounting firm PwC. Attendance totaled 7.9 billion in 2019.

It’s a slowly dying business, but it’s at least better than a quickly dying one. Fewer than 50 million homes will pay for cable or satellite television by 2027, down from 64 million today and 100 million seven years ago...

Disney shares have fallen 55 percent from their peak in March 2021. Paramount Global, which owns channels like MTV and CBS, has experienced an 83 percent decline over the same period...

“You now have, really in control, tech companies who haven’t a care or clue, so to speak, about the entertainment business — it’s not a pejorative, it’s just the reality,” Barry Diller, the media veteran, said by phone this past week, referring to Amazon and Apple.

“For each of these companies,” he added, “their minor business, not their major business, is entertainment. And yet, because of their size and influence, their minor interests are paramount in making any decisions about the future.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/15/...s trying,fighting to stay culturally dominant.

That last point that Diller made is something I've been saying. If you look at, for example, major record label executives of yore -- those guys had a true passion for the art form. They were inspired by the musicians they signed and they had an active role in shaping music history, which was the whole reason they got into the business.

But big tech doesn't care. It would be like if big tech bought the Catholic church and said, "Attendance is down, collections are down. AI has told us that we should charge $8 for admission and put entertainment centers in the basement. Scantily clad women will pass around the collections plate." Eventually, it doesn't look like a church anymore and anybody who enjoyed the old churchgoing experience is **** out of luck.

 

[Doug Bee]

There's lots of articles saying that by SAG-AFTRA representatives, but I've not seen it in an actual document from AMPTP. Think of that. Virtually every new actor/star ever would never be able to collect again since nearly everyone starts out as a background actor.

This is what the AMPTP released at their side of where they got to after the negations broke down. The information about them wanting to scan a background actor was a direct quote by the SAG lead negotiator in response to THIS memo.


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...al-1235535657/


"On the artificial intelligence proposal by studios, he denounced the offer for paying background performers for one day of work in exchange for the rights to their digital likeness “for the rest of eternity with no compensation.” He added, “If you think that’s a groundbreaking proposal, I suggest you think again.”

 

[Doug Bee]

I also wanted to add in case anyone thinks making coin as an actor is lucrative....

A friend posted that you have to make more than $26 000 a year to qualify for SAG's health insurance.

87% of the 120000 members of SAG don't qualify annually. So 87% of the SAG workforce don't make more than $26k a year.

So just like with writers, the top end of course are very well paid. But that's not the same down the line for the journeymen actors.

 

[Doug Jensen]

On the subject of American healthcare, I came across these anecdotes on Twitter. I can't vouch for their authenticity or truth.

Those are worthless anecdotal posts and it doesn't matter if they are true or not.

20 years of savings? How much is that? Could be $500, for all we know. I know people who have saved 20 years and probably still don't have enough put away to cover basic living expenses for a month or two. Wiped out their savings even though they had insurance? Sounds like they bought the wrong policy.

Life is a never-ending string of decisions and choices to be made. If you chose unwisely a few times, and things didn't turn out so great, well, that was the risk you took when you decided to live in a free country.

"“I don’t blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them.” Dr. Hammnond, Jurassic Park

 

[Paul F]

This is what the AMPTP released at their side of where they got to after the negations broke down. The information about them wanting to scan a background actor was a direct quote by the SAG lead negotiator in response to THIS memo.


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/bu...al-1235535657/


"On the artificial intelligence proposal by studios, he denounced the offer for paying background performers for one day of work in exchange for the rights to their digital likeness âfor the rest of eternity with no compensation.â He added, âIf you think thatâs a groundbreaking proposal, I suggest you think again.â

Yes, I've seen that quote from SAG's Crabtree-Ireland repeated in every article about the negotiations. It's his version of what was proposed, not what AMPTP actually said. The AMPTP memo supposedly actually says "– Groundbreaking AI proposal which protects performers’ digital likenesses, including a requirement for performer’s consent for the creation and use of digital replicas or for digital alterations of a performance."

The two statements aren't even close. AMPTP says Crabtree-Ireland's statement is false. So then who do we believe. For sure, a union leader is going to posture one way and the producer's another. What I'm looking for is the full document from AMPTP so that we can know what is actually being proposed.

 

[Doug Bee]

Yes, I've seen that quote from SAG's Crabtree-Ireland repeated in every article about the negotiations. It's his version of what was proposed, not what AMPTP actually said. The AMPTP memo supposedly actually says "– Groundbreaking AI proposal which protects performers’ digital likenesses, including a requirement for performer’s consent for the creation and use of digital replicas or for digital alterations of a performance."

The two statements aren't even close. AMPTP says Crabtree-Ireland's statement is false. So then who do we believe. For sure, a union leader is going to posture one way and the producer's another. What I'm looking for is the full document from AMPTP so that we can know what is actually being proposed.

I think both are probably true. AMPTP says we have a great plan for AI.

What is not spoken is that in the detail of the AMPTP deal, a background actor gets treated differently to a regular actor which is what Crabtree-Ireland points out and understandably says is unacceptable.

 

[drboffa]

"I don't blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them." Dr. Hammnond, Jurassic Park

I don't know if this was your intent, but the irony of this quote is that it ends up being directly about Hammond's actions. He spends the whole first part of the movie bragging about how they "spared no expense" in their building of the park. Impressive! But remember where they did cut corners: in their essential workers. By understaffing and underpaying his IT department—a key part of their security for the park—Hammond essentially invites catastrophe.

A Hollywood studio film (especially one by Spielberg) is never going to openly criticize the inherent abuse of power by the capitalist class at the expense of workers and ordinary people, but the implicit message of Jurassic Park comes pretty close. It's very easy to read Nedry (the disgruntled computer programmer) as the villain, especially as the film makes him so unlikable (Hollywood loves making people in bigger bodies into villains). But Hammond is the real villain, and the core cause of the calamity—all of which was avoidable.

It almost sounds like what studios are doing...

As for who to believe (actors/writers or studios): is it really a question? One side has a 100-year history of trying to exploit its workers and extract as much value as possible from them (and is literally looking forward to people getting evicted from their homes); the other is trying to earn a living wage. Hmm, tough call (/s, in case that isn't clear).

Also, on the topic of healthcare: arguing that the American system works just fine is a very, very lonely hill to die on. There may be disagreements about how to fix it, but unless you're an insurance company or in private equity you're unlikely to be happy with things. This is demonstrated by the fact that we spend more as a percent of GDP than any other developed country and get worse outcomes. A majority of people who incur medical debt (3/5) actually have insurance. And remember that we do provide healthcare to just about everyone: except we wait until they're in the ER to do so. We all pay for this one way or another.

This is a great recent podcast episode on the topic, in case anyone is curious to learn more.

 

[Doug Jensen]

I don't know if this was your intent, but the irony of this quote is that it ends up being directly about Hammond's actions. He spends the whole first part of the movie bragging about how they "spared no expense" in their building of the park. Impressive! But remember where they did cut corners: in their essential workers. By understaffing and underpaying his IT department—a key part of their security for the park—Hammond essentially invites catastrophe.

No, that is not what Hammond was saying. Dennis is not an employee, he is a contractor. Dennis (or his company) underestimated the work involved with building the IT infrastructure at Jurassic Park, and therefore was disgruntled he wasn't getting paid more. Too bad. His fault. He under-bid and got the contract on that basis, and now he must deliver the goods even if he doesn't feel like it was worth his time anymore. That is what that scene in the movie is about. And I'll bet a lot of freelancers/production company owners have found themselves exactly in that position more than once. But you have to eat it and finish the job with a smile on your face. He didn't.

It was Dennis' sabotage that led to to the chaos at Jurassic Park, not cost-cutting or whatever. One man caused it all. Fortunately, he paid the ultimate price. But he's a murderer nevertheless.

 

[drboffa]

One man caused it all.

On this we can agree, although I'd argue the movie (and the book) make it clear that the blame lies with Hammond. In addition to the cost-cutting, consider this interaction from the film's opening at the dig site:


Donald Gennaro (the lawyer): I had to promise to conduct a very thorough on-site inspection.

Juanito Rostagno : Hammond hates inspections. They slow everything down.


Nedry is not the root problem. The root problem is Hammond and his hubris. (Honestly I'm struck right now by now much this sounds like the recent Titan sub disaster.)

Works of art often lend themselves to different interpretations, although in this case I find it pretty clear that the film is a critique of people like Hammond. The book supposedly makes this even more clear, although it's been probably close to 30 years since I've read it.

 

[Doug Jensen]

No question Hammond has hubris and poor judgment, but his comment to Dennis is still perfectly valid. My point is that people need to own up to the decisions they have made. That includes their choice of career, education, employment, insurance, where to live, who to marry, what to drive, what to eat, how to exercise (or not), etc. Life is nothing but decisions. And you have to take responsiblity for what happens because of those decisions. Yeah, some things are out of our conrol - gender, race, parents, some diseases, etc. -- but peoplel do have choices in how they deal with those things once they are an adult. It's not always a level playing field but it still comes down to one's decisions in life.

Speaking of the lawyer, have you ever noticed that he blows one of his lines, but it still made it into the movie? I can't remember the exact dialog but he is talking about doing an inspection of Jurassic Park on behalf the investors. He says that at the end of the weekend (or whatever) "if they aren't convinced, I'm not convinced". That's just the opposite of what he intended to say. He should have said "If I'm not convinced, they're not convinced" since he is functioning as their eyes and ears.

 

[ahalpert]

Those are worthless anecdotal posts and it doesn't matter if they are true or not.

20 years of savings? How much is that? Could be $500, for all we know. I know people who have saved 20 years and probably still don't have enough put away to cover basic living expenses for a month or two. Wiped out their savings even though they had insurance? Sounds like they bought the wrong policy.

Life is a never-ending string of decisions and choices to be made. If you chose unwisely a few times, and things didn't turn out so great, well, that was the risk you took when you decided to live in a free country.

"“I don’t blame people for their mistakes, but I do ask that they pay for them.” Dr. Hammnond, Jurassic Park

Well, that's one way of looking at it. Just a philosophical difference. I'm with Jim Carrey:

Canadians are nice because they have health care, because they have a government that cares about them that doesn't say "sink or ****ing swim, pal...." You shouldn't have to lose your home because your mother got sick.

https://youtu.be/sr4l-EN_-Qg

 

[Doug Jensen]

Nice meme, but it totally misses my point. And I think you are smart enough to know that.

Don't blame me if you're not happy with your heathcare. I have nothing to do with it and I'm not happy with mine either. But as long as so many people have it tied to their employment, plus having the government involved in any fashion whatsoever, it will never be better. Deal with it.

 

[ahalpert]

Nice meme, but it totally misses my point. And I think you are smart enough to know that.

I'm mocking the cavalier indifference to the misfortune of others (even if that misfortune is partially their fault).

I think it's funny that people say the US embraces a free market economy (which isn't entirely true) because it leads to prosperity. But then they say that suffering for lack of medical care is the cost of having a free market.

You can call me a nanny state supporter, but I'm just an outcomes-driven guy and i think our population would be happier, healthier, and more economically productive under a different healthcare regime. It's pretty clear who benefits from keeping things this way.

Plus, a lot of money you pay your doctor/insurer currently goes to the billing department, it goes to advertising; it doesn't end up "on the screen." And the profits for hospitals and pharmaceuticals. Big pharma is making a killing off the covid-19 vaccines we paid for with our tax dollars. And of course, there's a general incentive to overprescribe tests and procedures because doctors bill by line item.

Do you think we should have pay-to-play military defense? Let the Russians invade West Virginia if they want because their federal taxes/expenses are net negative? Or maybe we just send them an itemized bill for the equipment fees and soldier's pay.

Don't blame me if you're not happy with your heathcare. I have nothing to do with it and I'm not happy with mine either. But as long as so many people have it tied to their employment, plus having the government involved in any fashion whatsoever, it will never be better. Deal with it.

Wait, you're not happy with your healthcare but you're defending it? Starting to sound like Stockholm Syndrome. I haven't been to a doctor in about 12 years but my luck is bound to run out sooner or later. Anyway, it's not just about me.

 

[Doug Jensen]

Abe, I agree with some of your points and disagree with others, but I'm going to let you have the last word. This not a topic that I care to spend my time on debating.

 

[mico]

Nice meme, but it totally misses my point. And I think you are smart enough to know that.

Don't blame me if you're not happy with your heathcare. I have nothing to do with it and I'm not happy with mine either. But as long as so many people have it tied to their employment, plus having the government involved in any fashion whatsoever, it will never be better. Deal with it.

that’s as ignorant as ignorant gets

 

[ahalpert]

This is interesting -- SAG had a strike in 1960 that was led by union president Ronald Reagan.

The primary issue? Movie studios were showing work on a new distribution platform, and actors wanted a piece of the pie. (Sound familiar?) Back then, it was the onset of TV. And Reagan helped win the right of actors to earn residuals from broadcasts.

https://slate.com/culture/2023/07/s...-wga-strike-hollywood-1960-ronald-reagan.html

 

[Doug Jensen]

that’s as ignorant as ignorant gets

If I had the time I'd try to explain it to you in simple terms, but I doubt you'd understand it anyway.