Which to buy: amaran 60x or 200x

[ahalpert]

You can always dim a light down or scrim it or diffuse it if it has "too much" power, but you can't add more power to a light that is underpowered to begin with.

Yeah I'm starting to conclude that I should suck it up and deal with a heavier set-up. The battery plate I have clamps to stand in a nice and compact fashion. The aputure battery bay looks more unwieldy. It'd be nice if someone said "of course you can use the same 2-battery bay across multiple lights as long as they have the same... (voltage/amperage/connector)" but I think I will bite the bullet and give the 200x a shot. It's still not a lot of output. The 60x probably a pipe dream. It's a bit seductive because of a similar output spec -- just with a 14-degree reflector which is on par with horizontal FOV of a FF 150mm...pretty tight...

 

[Andy9]

My experience: may or may not be relevant.
I have a couple of Godox ML60Bis and the Aputure LS60x (not Amaran). The LS60x has a tighter beam angle which really limits its use as fill (not a problem with the Amarans). The Godox is also lighter and more compact.

I find 60 watt COBs (2021 vintage) softened to a 65 or 85 cm source and positioned close to a single interviewee enough or more than enough for 90% of interiors. But the 10% is real so I'm also looking at the Amaran 200x. It's nice to have a high ceiling in terms of maximum available brightness as it gives you more options. But it is a LOT more weight to carry (with batteries) so how often do you think you're going to need it? If its a similar 10%, you could always get two 60 watt COBs giving you the option of putting them both behind a single umbrella - I did this at the weekend. I know you said you had problems with umbrellas but maybe an option in emergencies?

For me, the 200x will be a stay-in-the-van-until-needed light. My two 60-watt COBs go everywhere. EDITED TO ADD: I'm a sucker for backlight and augmenting what's in the room so others might find 60-watt COBs more limiting than I do. I'm not usually using them as key lights in bright rooms.

"I've been shopping for new bicolor or RGB fixtures for a while and I always return to the decision that it's not worth the move because I have lights that will do the job already, including many decent lights that are just gathering dust. So, getting something that would make me smile while also being incredibly cheap might move the needle for me."

I'd say that having a great lighting kit that makes you smile (cheap or not) is more likely to turn out to be a good investment than spending money on other kinds of equipment, even though the technology becomes obsolete fast. Great lighting opens up all kinds of possibilities for shooting in different ways and lifting your work. A new 50mm lens might look fabulous to me but the client probably won't notice the difference and it's not going to teach me anything I don't already know.

 

[ahalpert]

If anyone waa wondering, this is how the amaran 60x compares to the prolycht Orion 300 (before getting an upgrade to improve blue rendering) as tested by newsshooter

Prolycht @ 3200



Amaran 3200



Prolycht 5600



Amaran 5600

 

[ahalpert]

.

I find 60 watt COBs (2021 vintage) softened to a 65 or 85 cm source and positioned close to a single interviewee enough or more than enough for 90% of interiors. But the 10% is real so I'm also looking at the Amaran 200x. It's nice to have a high ceiling in terms of maximum available brightness as it gives you more options. But it is a LOT more weight to carry (with batteries) so how often do you think you're going to need it? If its a similar 10%, you could always get two 60 watt COBs giving you the option of putting them both behind a single umbrella - I did this at the weekend. I know you said you had problems with umbrellas but maybe an option in emergencies?

It sounds like we're on the same page. I was actually just thinking about ganging together 2 60x's into an umbrella. I don't have an issue with umbrellas for the applications these lights would face. The biggest drawback for me would be that I probably wouldn't want to gang them together for a harder source with more throw... I don't think I'm going to get that as clean as a single 200x...

For me, the 200x will be a stay-in-the-van-until-needed light. My two 60-watt COBs go everywhere. EDITED TO ADD: I'm a sucker for backlight and augmenting what's in the room so others might find 60-watt COBs more limiting than I do. I'm not usually using them as key lights in bright rooms.

It's going to be a lot of soft 3/4 front light with some high, hard stuff mixed in when I need more throw and maximal output. Schlepping the weight might be worth it...

I'd say that having a great lighting kit that makes you smile (cheap or not) is more likely to turn out to be a good investment than spending money on other kinds of equipment, even though the technology becomes obsolete fast. Great lighting opens up all kinds of possibilities for shooting in different ways and lifting your work. A new 50mm lens might look fabulous to me but the client probably won't notice the difference and it's not going to teach me anything I don't already know.

I've got room for 1 (or 2 ganged) unit/s that are portable and fit the applications mentioned. It could be pricier. I just haven't seen anything that's a home run. I considered larger panels since mostly I'll want it to be soft and even if it's high and hard from a distance, it'd be nice to have more beam spread. But the panels I've seen with decent output are all really heavy. So, better a COB I think. They still get heavy when you get up in power. And cumbersome with a separate ballast. These particular amarans tickled my fancy because of the color quality and the form factor and weight. And the fact that they're so cheap sort of means they don't have to be perfect to be worth the move. The 60x output with hyper reflector is impressive. Probably on par with my 300w daylight-only COB once it's gelled to tungsten and using its supplied reflector. And that's a level that has largely been adequate for me. It's just....the 60x only gets there with 14 degrees....

On the general subject of purchase strategies...I love my 50 gm 1.2. I don't think I need another 50 but this one definitely makes an impact and at zero logistical cost. But definitely, cutting back on buying lenses I don't use often has been very good for me. Lately, I'm trying to divert more and more money to my 401k. Hopefully sony will have a new 85 gm soon and I'll get that. Also maybe an a9iii or a7siv. I'd get one of those or possibly trade my 3 mirrorless cameras for 4 of a new one if it's groovy enough. But besides those anticipated purchases, I'm trying to buy nothing. Targeted purchases here and there to address specific applications or pain points. But I don't have an earmarked lighting budget or a burning desire to upgrade all my lights.

 

[morgan_moore]

many of your questions seem to revolve around strong attempts to keep it simple rather than getting assistance or maybe, for example, power from your clients.

One of production skills is finding the balance between independance and wider reliance.

Im shortly on a feature where they wanted £1000s of genny rental.. but a simple ask from a local will give us 16a distro at $10 a day.

--

In the be independent vibe - Id have the small light simple.. the 60.

The 60 will get you 'out of jail' as does my super portable dled 40.

If the client an you decide bigger is required,.. hire and bill them for a gaffer and van and have 3 1200 lights into an 8.8

Dont try and jam a gaffer truck in a rucksak.

--

Diffusing small lights is important to be efficient.. make every photon hit your subject. Id get an 18in square softbox. (with bigger light I dont like softboxes but frames).. but here efficiency is king

 

[ahalpert]

many of your questions seem to revolve around strong attempts to keep it simple rather than getting assistance or maybe, for example, power from your clients.

I want to run off batteries for speed and safety (of not having cables) as well as the ability to light outside. It's super flexible and the situation is sort of run and gun.

Dont try and jam a gaffer truck in a rucksak.

Hmm i think that's an overstatement. We're talking about a $200 light vs a $300 light (or $500 if I have to buy their stupid battery bay).

I don't want to give them gear for free. I'm not going to buy an Alexa 35 and bring it on for the rate they're giving me. But I will definitely burn extra calories on the job and wear as many hats as I can. It's value added and raises my odds of being the last man standing when the robots put us out of work.

I did an unusual shoot recently that was underfunded because it was a gift to a nonprofit they collaborate with. I set the frame, set the light, then boom opped the interviews while monitoring camera from my smartphone. (There was additional manpower around, just not trained manpower.) They paid my full rate and kit fee and everyone went home happy. I don't want to be remembered as a jackass of all trades after I die but I also don't really care and kind of enjoyed it. I'm not a princess.

 

[ahalpert]

Ok y'all talked me into it. I ordered the 200x. I need to check the specs of my 2-battery v mount power adapter. Do people think I can brick the light if it doesn't play well with my power source?

 

[Andy9]

Yes, it's hard to imagine it not being really useful.

As an aside, I've used so many lights where the ballast / battery thing / power brick connects to the light with a 5 foot cable - make it 8 feet and I can put all that weight on the floor! Best place for it and takes zero seconds. Even for sit down interviews I've usually got the lights higher than 5 feet.

Do you know how long the cable is on the 200x?

 

[ahalpert]

Yes, it's hard to imagine it not being really useful.

As an aside, I've used so many lights where the ballast / battery thing / power brick connects to the light with a 5 foot cable - make it 8 feet and I can put all that weight on the floor! Best place for it and takes zero seconds. Even for sit down interviews I've usually got the lights higher than 5 feet.

Do you know how long the cable is on the 200x?

9.8' but I'd like to have it on the stand so it all moves as one. It can hang on the base. But yeah totally better than a shorter cable. Although I'll probably use it mostly with batteries

 

[morgan_moore]

There is nothing wrong with rucksack man. My chum is a real estate photogrpaher who gets around sticky city on an ebike.
he's a Genius and rich.
Im just saying to have a good handle on getting the balance correct.
If you demand a crew of 10 for everything you go bust. If you carry too much stuff you get bust.
Anyway - you went with the bigger light

 

[Andy9]

9.8' but I'd like to have it on the stand so it all moves as one. It can hang on the base. But yeah totally better than a shorter cable. Although I'll probably use it mostly with batteries

Thanks, that’s perfect.

It sounds like we’ve got similar priorities - size and weight over almost everything else (though sounds like you’re more mobile). I’ve been looking for the lightest-weight-possible interview backlight. I’ve seen a lot of bare tube LEDs used for this purpose. I don’t understand why this would be that much softer than a small panel but evidently it is. I’m thinking of some kind of horizontal arm and the whole thing being light enough that it doesn’t even need a c-stand, just an ordinary light stand. A tube with no battery but USB-C power (and a 12 foot cable) would be ideal but I think they’ve all got built in batteries.

 

[Peter C.]

From post #4. I own v mounts it's just a question of size/weight for this application as well as having more batteries available if both types could be used

Sorry didn't see that post.
Now I see you want it for outdoors. That's one of the most challenging setups you can ask for. I've assisted a colleague and it's a lot of setup heavy equipment, c-stand or sandbagged sturdy stands so wind won't knock down your equipment.You'll also need lots of power to compete with the sun. This takes big v-mount batteries to power your light. most will use daylight only colored led lights because they provide the most light to power. If your filming in direct sun a scrim to block the sun off the subjects face and lower the amount of light needed otherwise you'll be blinding them. A reflector could do most of the work taking out shadows might eliminate the need for a light. But the easiest set up would be to simply move the subject to a shaded area now you don't need all that equipment. Just a small light to go give catch light in the eyes might be all that's needed.

 

[ahalpert]

There is nothing wrong with rucksack man. My chum is a real estate photogrpaher who gets around sticky city on an ebike.
he's a Genius and rich.
Im just saying to have a good handle on getting the balance correct.
If you demand a crew of 10 for everything you go bust. If you carry too much stuff you get bust.
Anyway - you went with the bigger light

Wait what's sticky city? Yes, bigger light. I realized that many times I can probably have a schlepper carry it and then I'll just set it. And even if I don't have a schlepper, I've been pushing myself hard to carry multiple cameras during wedding portrait sessions. I can push myself to carry the bigger light

 

[ahalpert]

Thanks, that’s perfect.

It sounds like we’ve got similar priorities - size and weight over almost everything else (though sounds like you’re more mobile). I’ve been looking for the lightest-weight-possible interview backlight. I’ve seen a lot of bare tube LEDs used for this purpose. I don’t understand why this would be that much softer than a small panel but evidently it is. I’m thinking of some kind of horizontal arm and the whole thing being light enough that it doesn’t even need a c-stand, just an ordinary light stand. A tube with no battery but USB-C power (and a 12 foot cable) would be ideal but I think they’ve all got built in batteries.

Hmm that's interesting. Well, if it's a relatively long tube then at least it gives you wrap in one direction? Are you going to arm it out without throwing weight on the base of thr stand? And if you need to sandbag, your weight goes way up? How heavy are these lights, like 1lb? It looks like at least some Quasar Science tubes don't have internal batteries. Although the one I'm looking at looks like it only takes AC power anyway https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...CD5cQAvD_BwE&lsft=BI:514&smp=y&smpm=ba_f2_lar 283 lux at 1 meter, that ain't much

 

[ahalpert]

Sorry didn't see that post.
Now I see you want it for outdoors. That's one of the most challenging setups you can ask for. I've assisted a colleague and it's a lot of setup heavy equipment, c-stand or sandbagged sturdy stands so wind won't knock down your equipment.You'll also need lots of power to compete with the sun. This takes big v-mount batteries to power your light. most will use daylight only colored led lights because they provide the most light to power. If your filming in direct sun a scrim to block the sun off the subjects face and lower the amount of light needed otherwise you'll be blinding them. A reflector could do most of the work taking out shadows might eliminate the need for a light. But the easiest set up would be to simply move the subject to a shaded area now you don't need all that equipment. Just a small light to go give catch light in the eyes might be all that's needed.

Right a little eyelight may be all the unit can provide. But as you said, if the sun is backlighting them you can bounce it with a flex disc. Frontlighting them, you can diffuse it. The light comes into play more in cloudy or shaded conditions. And if you leave it hard and bring it close, it can compete. I like hard light if you're careful with the angle

 

[morgan_moore]

Wait what's sticky city?

One where there is low emissions restrictions and minimal parking - sticky to get about in something like my production wagon.. which is at least now low pollution

 

[ahalpert]

It looks like the battery plate I already own puts out 60V at up to 5A. The amaran 200x takes a 48V input. The battery plate designated for use with it (though it was originally designed to power larger Aputure lights) puts out 48V at up to 10A.

What do people think -- bad idea to connect a 60V output to a 48V input? Probably, right?

EDIT: The internet is telling me this will probably kill the light. Lower voltage input might work but at less than maximum power, I think. Overvoltage probably gonna kill the light. So I'm gonna try it out when it shows up, make sure I like it. Then buy the battery bay. It seems like most or all of the aputure lights are wired for 48V input, so it may be useful on a different light in the future if I buy more from them

 

[ahalpert]

Interesting to see in the promo e-mail I just got about the Maxima 6 LED:

Maxima 6 shines at full power with our Battery Box or with any* third party DC source. Yes, you read right: use any of your Arri®, Bebop®, FXLion® and so many mary battery packs to power your Maxima thanks to our GaNPowered™ DC input now standard in the Maxima WhitePort.

*: any third party DC source with 35V to 75V output can be directly connected to Maxima 6 WhitePort. Third party performance may vary depending on the source.

So, there they list the range of voltages that the light can accept. It seems possible, even likely, that the 200x could also accept a range of voltages...but what that range is I do not know...

 

[Peter C.]

I’d get the proper batteries to go with it. Just think of all the time you’re already spent playing the what if game. These lights need batteries designed for high current draw. Either do it right or not at all. It’s an expensive luxury to run these lights on batteries.

 

[ahalpert]

I’d get the proper batteries to go with it. Just think of all the time you’re already spent playing the what if game. These lights need batteries designed for high current draw. Either do it right or not at all. It’s an expensive luxury to run these lights on batteries.

I already have the batteries just not the two battery Bay that aputure sells which is a s***** product anyway and then they want to sell you a $65 clamp just to clamp it onto the stand which I have built-in to the 2-battery plate of my 330 W COB. And it offends me although it doesn't surprise me that the higher-end maxima fixture will be up front about which kind of power sources it can receive whereas the aputure is full of s*** and there's actually misinformation from B&H salesmen on their website where some places they tell people no you can't use this battery plate with lights besides the two lights it was originally marketed with (which were not these amarans) and later on in other places they correct that and say you can use it with any of these aputure lights. it's a mess