Is the forum slow?

Forums like this are done, JimGao.

You missed about two decades of craziness on here...this place was a lot of fun.

I always said it has one of the most intricate databases of camera and general video/audio history and should be protected at all costs. We were so naive and excited about old technology, had no idea what was going to happen in 15-20 years...a beautiful thing.

Some of us old timers will still hold the fort down and welcome any newcomers who pop in, but it will never be the same no matter what.
 
NorBro said:
Forums like this are done, JimGao.

You missed about two decades of craziness on here...this place was a lot of fun.

I always said it has one of the most intricate databases of camera and general video/audio history and should be protected at all costs. We were so naive and excited about old technology, had no idea what was going to happen in 15-20 years...a beautiful thing.

Some of us old timers will still hold the fort down and welcome any newcomers who pop in, but it will never be the same no matter what.
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I don’t care what it was before. I am saying embrace what it is now.

Better to be a video tech place, for people highly interested in video tech, than a filmmaking forum where most people have little interest in pursuing film making.

Maybe you remember the good old days, but it isn’t that thing anymore. I don’t see why you should hold onto it for nostalgic reasons. idk, maybe you still have a movie left in you. I’d be down for that! But you don’t need dvxuser when you go to make your movie. You may find it even deters you.

I’m just explaining my position. obviously it won’t change.
 
Anyways, i have wasted enough of your time. Tomorrow starts a new week.

I appreciate all of the replies and thoughts. Take care!
 
JimGao said:
I don’t care what it was before. I am saying embrace what it is now.

Better to be a video tech place, for people highly interested in video tech, than a filmmaking forum where most people have little interest in pursuing film making.

Maybe you remember the good old days, but it isn’t that thing anymore. I don’t see why you should hold onto it for nostalgic reasons. idk, maybe you still have a movie left in you. I’d be down for that! But you don’t need dvxuser when you go to make your movie. You may find it even deters you.

I’m just explaining my position. obviously it won’t change.
Click to expand...

[facepalm]

I am one of the more technical people on the forum who has never made a film in my life.

I used to talk cameras more than I used to work and eat & sleep.

Besides random cafe chatting, almost every conversation I've ever had on here involved answering questions and camera specs, software, etc. That is what I like and have personally teased 'The online filmmaking community' title many years ago when things were already changing.

But I always embrace and adapt immediately - overnight - to anything and everything.

___

This isn't the first thread like this. But the exact answer to the question can be found here if you have the time: https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/announ...ftware-upgrade

The TL;DR is the site locked out hundreds of people for weeks after the upgrade and the overall design change affected the traffic, which unfortunately never recovered. There is no other answer because it happened immediately after the server/software upgrade.
 
Yup I'm with Norbro on all of that.

I mean, I still want to use this forum. I think reddit and facebook are terrible mediums for discussion. Posts tend to be transient, they don't get bumped or end up taking on long form discussion. Answers are generally much shorter and simpler due to the format. After a day or two, all activity dies down. If something does go on longer, it is usually more 1-on-1.

But then, that is the new generation - twitter, tiktok, reddit; cognitively conditioned by media and web to be attention strained, hence the short form formats. That can never surpass what has been here - long form back and forth communal discussion that can sometimes go on for weeks or even months, that then become a searchable repository of information. The crowd here is/was/has been much more knowledgeable, in general, than what you will find on reddit or somewhere else - especially the old timers.

The double edged sword to that, is that the old timer experience can also miss the insights of a new generation that sees through fresh eyes. There aren't nearly as many hip new wave users here, and I'm sure many were turned away not getting the modern 'hacks' they needed. This new generation does many things "wrong" by traditional standards, but they get results that quite often work better. An easy example would be when IBIS was new, it was lambasted by many well seasoned veterans here as an amateur feature, along with LUT packs and so forth. And I get it. Throwing on a LUT is technically wrong and not the best way to go about it, but it is a shortcut that works well and can produce fast and good looking results. So you have this new generation doing all kinds of things "wrong" - LUT packs, too much slow motion, relying entirely on IBIS in an often lazy way, overly shallow DOF, overly flashy lighting (or no lighting at all, or sloppy lighting, or one-note repetitive lighting techniques), too fast of cuts. It's the same sort of Scorsese vs Marvel divide; but then this new generation that has gone on to get tons of clients and steal business from others, and sometimes making millions producing content that looks modern and fluid. So what ends up happening? You create a forum here that has ACTUAL industry experience, wisdom and know-how - but sometimes works best in the context of a larger team or budget, and can thus be unfriendly or unhelpful to 20 somethings who better find what they are looking for on reddit. And the forum slowly dies off due to more outgoing users than incoming users.

I remember 15 years ago one of my first posts was asking for help on a stupid little zero budget short film I was doing, on how to get sound for it since I didn't have a boom pole - just a camera mounted microphone, no pole, no sound recorder. I was told I would need to record sounds separately in a studio like environment and sync them, matching the environment. I would need either more gear, more money, more work. As is, it just wasn't possible. I was also told this in a condescending way. In reality I came up with my own solution - after filming the scene with my camera mounted mic on the HVX200, I just filmed it again, identically, and brought the camera in closer and hit record. I recorded video, with audio, of footsteps or other sound effects. And then split the audio/video and cut it together in the NLE. Now, I didn't need any fancy sound editing to match the environment, or a sound recorded. It was perfect for my use case, even with the poorer on camera pre-amps and non-isolated takes. It was the "wrong" method that worked far better for my one man band zero budget setup, and no one was the wiser - in fact, reverb and environment matched perfect whereas it likely would have sounded fake and produced had I tried to go about it the traditional way, since I didn't have access to true experts to do quality matching.

And that's a great example - where I stuck with it because I realized everyone knew their stuff and I wanted to reach that level (and no other mediums existed at the time); more recent new users might have come here to get that sort of rigid "proper" advice and compared it to more practical, modern, guerilla advice elsewhere and never looked back. Add to that the issues mentioned prior - shorter attention span and preference for short form formats found elsewhere, and the preference to watch a youtube video on 2x and learn visually without a need to read long multi-page discussions, and...

As for the design change...

While it may seem silly that a design change could confer such a drastic shift, I absolutely agree it was a key contributor. But reverting to the old design wouldn't "fix" it; because it's not like people stuck up their nose at a new design. I think it was something else. IMO it's more in the sense of "the straw that broke the camel's back." The forum had been shifting and dwindling with larger cultural + industry wide shifts for many years at this point. Then the pandemic accelerated everything - not just through the drama, bans, etc., but also through people here reevaluating what they are doing, etc. Then, top that all off with a design change that locks people out for just enough weeks to "break the habit", so to speak, and when they do come back...

It all feels different. At least for me, it's a strange psychological thing where perhaps the design change put a more tangible/visible expression to a sort of vague, pre-existing, underlying feeling that DVXuser no longer feels like home. So when you get the new coat of paint, it just sort of solidifies that already existing feeling - that this isn't the place it used to be. Add to that feeling the time that allowed the rhythm to be broken and the initial friction of navigating the new interface, and it becomes more apparent of how different the forum is now than even 5 years ago, let alone 10.

...Obviously I'm still here hanging around, IMO there is no better source for discussion and help, and many users are still familiar. It's still where I want to be. Yet it's also hard for me to ever see the forum regaining it's former glory, so to speak. It feels like it is in its twilight years. I'll hang onto it while it's still here, but I think many have a sense that it's the end of an era.
 
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I don't know about you guys but DVXuser is my favorite place to read and discuss this industry. You guys are great. I detest FB and all the other similar oligarchs so even though there might be some useful groups on there I cannot bring myself to use it.
I think as others said, when the DVX100 came out, a lot of us aspired to make our own films and this place was ideal for exchanging about that. Now we are doing what pays the bills, and the new young want-to-make-a-film crowd is using social media.

People can still discuss filmmaking on here and do occassionally, but we talk a lot more tech. Both are interesting to me.
Oddly enough I'm working to go from commercial and event production to accomplishing my main goal before it's too late, which is producing a short series. Not a feature film, but at least it's similar. So hopefully I'll be a "filmmaker" at the end.

I never figured out, what is that click when I rotate by DVX100B when powered off?
 
firehawk said:
I don't know about you guys but DVXuser is my favorite place to read and discuss this industry. You guys are great. I detest FB and all the other similar oligarchs so even though there might be some useful groups on there I cannot bring myself to use it.
I think as others said, when the DVX100 came out, a lot of us aspired to make our own films and this place was ideal for exchanging about that. Now we are doing what pays the bills, and the new young want-to-make-a-film crowd is using social media.

People can still discuss filmmaking on here and do occassionally, but we talk a lot more tech. Both are interesting to me.
Oddly enough I'm working to go from commercial and event production to accomplishing my main goal before it's too late, which is producing a short series. Not a feature film, but at least it's similar. So hopefully I'll be a "filmmaker" at the end.

I never figured out, what is that click when I rotate by DVX100B when powered off?
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Yeah, might feel better as a tech forum with film and filmmaking subforums.

basically exactly what it is today, but swapping out the mainheader/banner .png to one that says “video tech” or something.

This forum has legs, and is already good.


And anyone who is comparing swapping a .png to the complexity of revising the whole site is probably not that tech savvy.
 
Looked up some DP Review (Chris and Jordan) YouTube click count. Full cameras reviews still get about 200,000 but there are far fewer new cameras reviews. So they are creating the "previews" and the "final reviews" to fill out their production quotas (the next on their docket might be the "intermediate" and the "advanced" reviews ... but I'm just harking back to my college days). The "finals" seem to get about 50,000. Lenses are about the same. Their main purpose is obviously to direct more traffic to the main DPR site and sell more gear via the associate/partner links. But, with fewer models to offer, the main site ought to be in a similar not-so-fine shape.
 
DLD said:
Looked up some DP Review (Chris and Jordan) YouTube click count. Full cameras reviews still get about 200,000 but there are far fewer new cameras reviews. So they are creating the "previews" and the "final reviews" to fill out their production quotas (the next on their docket might be the "intermediate" and the "advanced" reviews ... but I'm just harking back to my college days). The "finals" seem to get about 50,000. Lenses are about the same. Their main purpose is obviously to direct more traffic to the main DPR site and sell more gear via the associate/partner links. But, with fewer models to offer, the main site ought to be in a similar not-so-fine shape.
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Agreed, things are evolving.
 
I was a diehard here for a long time. For of a lurker than a poster, but still. One of my most frequented sites for years.

I think the biggest reason is that younger folk are discussing on reddit/facebook and to some extent, instagram/tiktok. It's a shame too, because I still think forums like these are the best medium for quality discussion by a mile. I miss forums in general.

And for me personally, these forums tended to be way more tech than creative focused, and tech has been uninteresting for a long time. Improvements are incremental, and most cameras from several generations back are plenty good to shoot content with high production values. The early days of the original DVX, HVX200, early DSLRs..... those were incredibly exciting times because quality footage was finally accessible to the average consumer.

Early MiniDV to DVX100 was stunning. DVX100 to HVX200 was stunning. 5D/GH2 was stunning. Then each jump got less and less extreme. Now high quality footage (from a technical standpoint) is a dime a dozen, so the honeymoon phase is long gone.

My favorite types of threads on these forums are business threads. It's nice to hear how people are making it work in this industry.
 
DBP said:
... Early MiniDV to DVX100 was stunning. DVX100 to HVX200 was stunning. 5D/GH2 was stunning. Then each jump got less and less extreme. Now high quality footage (from a technical standpoint) is a dime a dozen, so the honeymoon phase is long gone..
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The law of diminishing returns is a problem with many an industry. Photo-video consumer cameras have reached their limits of a practical resolution, dynamic range and frame rate. There are luxury electric cars with 1,000-1,200 horsepower. The commercial jet aircraft don't even fly as fast as the late 1950's Boeing 707. There are incremental improvements since no technology stops its innovation completely but they are around the margins, with only an occasional breakthrough. And then the excitement fades.
 
DLD said:
For sh!ts and giggles, here's a chart of the CPU performances over the years.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/year-on-year.html
Click to expand...

The coolest thing this chart demonstrates is how smaller % "incremental" increases can be deceiving. Look at that chart and how in the past, we'd see some year over year improvements in excess of 50% early on. That makes 10% improvements today seem lame. But that's only relatively speaking, and is not the case when viewed in absolute performance.

If I have $10 and get a 64% year over year increase, I now have $16.40. I made $6.40. Woohoo. If I have $100,000 and see a 10% increase, I now have $110,000 - I made $10,000 more dollars.

Same thing with performance on CPUs/GPUs, and of course, camera gear. Sure, improvements are incremental in tech now but they are still substantial. Of course, on the flip side of that we also have the non-quantifiable and qualitative "felt difference". Again comparing to finances, a single person living in a mid sized city and making $25k a year and jumping to $150k/year will experience a massive change in quality of life. A person jumping from $150k/year to $275k/year in that same city may experience another big jump, just as substantial in absolute terms. But relatively, most of their big ticket items were already taken care of in that first jump, so to speak. The difference between below poverty line to upper middle class is massive in terms of overall quality of life. The next jump may add fancier wine and nicer toys/cars/vacations/etc. but it's not the same as moving past Ramen, a bad bed, public transit, and constant stress.

So to make the counter argument: while lower relative gains may be just as high (or higher) in terms of absolute gains when we see incremental improvement today, the felt difference in moving from a camera with 14 stops DR to 17 stops, or 4k60p 10-bit to 4k120p 10-bit don't hit quite as hard as moving from 10 stops to 14 stops DR, or digital 8 tapes to SD cards, or 8-bit to 10-bit, etc.
 
filmguy123 said:
The coolest thing this chart demonstrates is how smaller % "incremental" increases can be deceiving. Look at that chart and how in the past, we'd see some year over year improvements in excess of 50% early on. That makes 10% improvements today seem lame. But that's only relatively speaking, and is not the case when viewed in absolute performance...
Click to expand...

I remember listening to an LA talk show - political/issues, non tech - in 1997, I believe, with its host enthusiastically reporting about intending to upgrade his personal computer to a 200 MHz Pentium Pro. Most PC's were then around 100-166 MHz mark, and with a lot less cache to boot. (about 20 years later, the same host reported just as happily, but now on his Facebook page, about getting "the best camera on the market" - 5DMKIV! .... mind you, this is a wealthy individual with his now syndicated show ranked in the top 35 in the US)

Anyway, technology generally hits certain plateaus, sometimes permanently, that dooms its industry. An average desktop PC was around $2,500 when I entered consumer retail in 1986; now, an average is under $600 and most buyers prefer laptops to desktops anyway. It's obviously vastly different for video editing, which barely existed back in 1986. For others, the CPU processing power makes very little difference since all they only use the machine for is to watch You Po ... I mean, YouTube.

PS. Back around that time, VHS Players Only were the cheapest video option on the market. If some just watched prerecorded tapes, those were good enough. And Johnny Carson used to tell the same joke time and time again - it was about the VCR time clock blinking 12:00.
 
YouTube recommended that I watch a Deep Purple tribute band Strange Kind of Women (billed as the only all female DP tribute band). A concert recorded live in a small open venue in Colmar, France on the 20th of August. The channel "Hey, Frany" content creator then listed the video equipment used :

! - #Sony Handycam FDR - AX100E - #Canon Powershot G1X Mark III - #SONY DSC-RX10M lII - #Canon EOS 700D.

Not an Alexa among them.
 
DLD said:
YouTube recommended that I watch a Deep Purple tribute band Strange Kind of Women (billed as the only all female DP tribute band). A concert recorded live in a small open venue in Colmar, France on the 20th of August. The channel "Hey, Frany" content creator then listed the video equipment used :

! - #Sony Handycam FDR - AX100E - #Canon Powershot G1X Mark III - #SONY DSC-RX10M lII - #Canon EOS 700D.

Not an Alexa among them.
Click to expand...

the future
 
DBP said:
I

And for me personally, these forums tended to be way more tech than creative focused, and tech has been uninteresting for a long time. Improvements are incremental, and most cameras from several generations back are plenty good to shoot content with high production values. The early days of the original DVX, HVX200, early DSLRs..... those were incredibly exciting times because quality footage was finally accessible to the average consumer.

Early MiniDV to DVX100 was stunning. DVX100 to HVX200 was stunning. 5D/GH2 was stunning. Then each jump got less and less extreme. Now high quality footage (from a technical standpoint) is a dime a dozen, so the honeymoon phase is long gone.
Click to expand...

I just goggled my self, cause I was looking for some old BTS pics, and stumbled over my ancient "Loss Fest" entry here.

https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/dvxfe...-you-a-frank-glencairn-film/page9#post2539183

Looking at that 9 pages discussion - yeah, tech played a much bigger role, and we all proudly shared our skills.

Anyone remember Juan and his hacked "raw" DVX? Great times.

best, Frank
 
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