RED s35 8K Raptor

mico said:
Because they realized that a billionaires open checkbook searching for a hit is never gonna come.
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Correction: Jim Jannard retired from RED a decade ago; during that time, countless of the world’s most successful filmmakers have shot with RED, from arthouse to mainstream; those films continue to reap rewards for best cinematography and best film; and their most recent cameras, including the KOMODO, are very much in demand. I was living in Korea at the time the RED ONE was released and will never forget the great movies and TV shows being shot with it. Cafe Noir, a Korean film shot by one of the country’s most prominent film critics, was among the most compelling I’d ever seen - and I’ve watched hundreds of Korean movies and written about them for the online movie website Twitch. Or the precocious Canadian filmmaker Xavier Dolan’s powerful first film, I Killed My Mother, shot on a miniscule budget with the RED ONE, and which received a standing ovation at Cannes. In another category are uber-talented commercial filmmakers like Mark Toia who swear by RED.

Meanwhile, the multinational Japanese conglomerates many in the forums and comments sections of online tech websites are rooting for have valuations in the 100s of billions of dollars, while the estimated revenue of RED is a few hundred million a year. For comparison, estimates place Blackmagic Design’s value at over 1.5 billion dollars and Grant Petty will enter the billionaires club in the next couple of years.

At the time the RED ONE was announced, if I remember correctly, Sony was selling a cinema camera for a whopping $200,000. RED completely revolutionized the industry. Yet even highly regarded cinematographers like Geoff Boyle accused Jannard of being a scam artist at the time. He was one of many skeptics (since proven wrong) who thought a 4K RAW cinema camera for $20,000 was an impossibility. So much for Graeme Nattress’ patent being obvious! So no, RED is not sitting around waiting for a hit, far from it, but the fact remains that their company is dwarfed by industry giants like Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Canon and the rest. Remember how many years it took for Sony to offer 10-bit in their mirrorless cameras (shutter angle, scopes, 24p, DCI: the list of omissions is endless…), Canon to start producing cameras that weren’t weirdly crippled to protect their cinema lineup and on and on? If you’re going to blame anyone for failure to innovate, point the finger at their own marketing departments and stop looking for a scapegoat. hehe

On a side note, Art Adams, lens specialist at ARRI, complained years ago about RED’s marketing, which led producers to choose their camera even before hiring a DP (don’t tell me producers don’t decide on an ARRI before hiring a DP, or at least choosing one who is famous for their adoration of the brand!) and Jim Jannard’s refusal to send units out for testing by revered filmmakers like Boyle who he couldn’t count on to praise his cameras (a practice that continues to this very day by several Japanese companies). ARRI and Sony continue to dominate high end production and if I remember correctly, the Alexa Mini was behind no fewer than twenty of the 52 films in competition for best feature film at Cannes last year. In fact, RED’s presence in the high end space has fallen over the years, disproving claims that the company is somehow stifling innovation and competition.
 
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jonpais said:
Correction: Jim Jannard retired from RED a decade ago; during that time, countless of the world’s most successful filmmakers have shot with RED, from arthouse to mainstream; those films continue to reap rewards for best cinematography and best film; and their most recent cameras, including the KOMODO, are very much in demand. I was living in Korea at the time the RED ONE was released and will never forget the great movies and TV shows being shot with it. Cafe Noir, a Korean film shot by one of the country’s most prominent film critics, was among the most compelling I’d ever seen - and I’ve watched hundreds of Korean movies and written about them for the online movie website Twitch. Or the precocious Canadian filmmaker Xavier Dolan’s powerful first film, I Killed My Mother, shot on a miniscule budget with the RED ONE, and which received a standing ovation at Cannes. In another category are uber-talented commercial filmmakers like Mark Toia who swear by RED.

Meanwhile, the multinational Japanese conglomerates many in the forums and comments sections of online tech websites are rooting for have valuations in the 100s of billions of dollars, while the estimated revenue of RED is a few hundred million a year. For comparison, estimates place Blackmagic Design’s value at over 1.5 billion dollars and Grant Petty will enter the billionaires club in the next couple of years.

At the time the RED ONE was announced, if I remember correctly, Sony was selling a cinema camera for a whopping $200,000. RED completely revolutionized the industry. Yet even highly regarded cinematographers like Geoff Boyle accused Jannard of being a scam artist at the time. He was one of many skeptics (since proven wrong) who thought a 4K RAW cinema camera for $20,000 was an impossibility. So much for Graeme Nattress’ patent being obvious! So no, RED is not sitting around waiting for a hit, far from it, but the fact remains that their company is dwarfed by industry giants like Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Canon and the rest. Remember how many years it took for Sony to offer 10-bit in their mirrorless cameras (shutter angle, scopes, 24p, DCI: the list of omissions is endless…), Canon to start producing cameras that weren’t weirdly crippled to protect their cinema lineup and on and on? If you’re going to blame anyone for failure to innovate, point the finger at their own marketing departments and stop looking for a scapegoat. hehe

On a side note, Art Adams, lens specialist at ARRI, complained years ago about RED’s marketing, which led producers to choose their camera even before hiring a DP (don’t tell me producers don’t decide on an ARRI before hiring a DP, or at least choosing one who is famous for their adoration of the brand!) and Jim Jannard’s refusal to send units out for testing by revered filmmakers like Boyle who he couldn’t count on to praise his cameras (a practice that continues to this very day by several Japanese companies). ARRI and Sony continue to dominate high end production and if I remember correctly, the Alexa Mini was behind no fewer than twenty of the 52 films in competition for best feature film at Cannes last year. In fact, RED’s presence in the high end space has fallen over the years, disproving claims that the company is somehow stifling innovation and competition.
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Geoff Boyle died last year. The CML is a fantastic resource for cinematographers. Smearing his name is one of the reasons Red is not highly respected.
 
d shay said:
Geoff Boyle died last year. The CML is a fantastic resource for cinematographers. Smearing his name is one of the reasons Red is not highly respected.
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Since purchasing a RED myself, I’ve been going through YouTube watching everything from tutorials to comparisons to iPhones, and the number of views, likes and positive comments about RED is staggering, far exceeding the handful of haters that pop up each time RED is in the news. Many of the world’s most successful cinematographers shoot RED. Whether Jim Jannard had a spat with a photographer a decade ago doesn’t really interest me. I’ve spoken with Jannard a couple times myself and he struck me as a very down to earth guy. Same goes for Phil Holland.
 
What the haters fail to acknowledge is how RED revolutionized cinema. At the time the RED ONE was released, most if not all, cinema cameras shot HD on tiny sensors that could not reproduce the shallow depth of field characteristic of film; the three separate chips used at the time softened the image, which then had to be processed, resulting in a sharper image but which also created artifacts. Most cameras at the time shot interlaced video whereas the RED ONE used progressive. RED’s first sensor, the Mysterium, was larger by 10% because filmmakers shooting 4K wanted to see beyond the frame. Another important feature of the RED sensor was how it recreated the texture of film with noise that is very organic, something that still distinguishes RED from many other cameras today. RED was the first company to allow owners to upgrade their sensor, to the new Dragon 6K sensor, right on the floor at NAB! RED also anticipated HDR years before other manufacturers jumped on board. The least expensive cinema camera at the time the RED ONE was released was three times more expensive. RED had invested so much and made so many innovations it’s only natural that they’d want to protect their IP. A former VP of marketing at ARRI was even involved in corporate edpionage, pleading guilty to hacking RED emails and allegedly sharing information about RED’s EPIC with the German rival. Bravin “pleaded guilty to using the name and password of CEO and president Amnon Band to access files used in interstate commerce. Emails from several industry firms were accessed during the hacking, including those of Red Digital Cinema founder Jim Jannard. The hacking occurred between December 2009 and June 2010.” He also apparently spread false information in online forums under a pseudonym. One more thing I’ll add about Geoff Boyle: it’s not just that he accused RED of being charlatans (he said the project was vaporware), but because he was so admired in the filmmaking community, he was able to convince an army of followers of the same (much like we see today). Yet unlike the haters of today, folks like Andrew over at EOSHD (who is under an NDA) and Art Adams of Arri, who had his own run-ins with Jannard, still gave RED (and Graeme Nattress) credit for their contributions and did not stoop to take cheap shots at the brand. And the filmmakers who run the leading websites devoted to video who published the story of RED vs Nikon fail to correct the falsehoods spread by their readers in the comments section for fear of alienating their followers and losing out on the revenue generated by all their advertising.

Ironically, even though the RED ONE signalled the ascendancy of digital cinema, the first features shot on the RED ONE had to be transferred to film as theaters did not yet have digital projectors.
 
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Owning a specific camera doesn't need to be an identity. They are tools and a good tool box has a variety of tools as each excels at specific tasks. I wonder if the small sensor on the S35 VRaptor will allow for some more processing options with less of it going to the VV sensor. I'm looking forward to the S35 V Raptor as I'm a fan of S35 sensor size and have some S35 cinema zooms and own a Komodo also but also have cameras from BM, Canon, Sony & Panasonic.
 
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