DJI Ronin 4D Camera | 6K & 8K

Teddy_Dem

Teddy_Dem

Well-known member
DJI finally did it. Made an all in one camera/gimbal combo.

https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/10/...mbal-solution/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiVJnRXUwKw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GSQDUGPlkw

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XaRJKTphwQ
[/URL]

Interchangeable Mounts
  • DJI’s DL Mount which allows connection to Leica M, Sony E-mont
Dual Native ISO
  • 800/5000 dual native ISO
  • EI 200 to 12800
  • 14+ stops of dynamic range
In-Camera ND Filters
  • Built-in ND.03 to ND2.7 filters
Autofocus
  • LIDAR and also continuous autofocus
DJI Ronin 4D 6K - $7,199
  • Captures 6K raw at rates up to 60 fps in full-frame 2.39:1
  • Captures up to 4K raw at rates up to 120 fps in Super 35 2.39:1
  • Captures up to 4K raw at rates up to 96 fps in Super 35 17:9
  • Capture up to 6K60 ProRes 422 HQ video in full-frame 2.39:1
  • Capture up to 4K120 ProRes 422 HQ video in Super 35 2.39:1
  • Capture up to 2K120 ProRes 422 HQ or H.264 in 17:9 full-frame
DJI Ronin 4D 8K - $11,499
  • Captures 8K full-frame raw at rates up to 75 fps in full-frame 2.39:1
  • Captures up to 5.5K raw at rates up to 60 fps in Super 35 17:9
  • Capture up to 8K30 ProRes 422 HQ video in 17:9 full-frame
  • Capture up to DCI 4K60 ProRes 422 HQ or H.264 in 17:9 full-frame or Super35
 
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The fact that they got around Reds troll troll patent by separating lens from recorder body allowing them to use prores raw and variations of makes me love this this even more.
 
Very cool but I see 2 large flaws: only shoots 48fps in 17:9 full frame, and only supports lenses up to 850g (which I assume includes gears/motor, and is probably also negatively impacted by long lenses? Gotta use compact lenses?)

Also seems like it compares unfavorably to canon/sony dpaf because eye AF and subject tracking are so powerful. I always felt like the comparative advantage of liar was getting to use cine lenses, which seems sort of mooted by the weight limitation

Therefore it sorta seems like a solution only for gimbal-centric shoots. I'm also not sure how many people who shoot gimbals a lot are still flummoxed by set-up time and complexity

But all that being said, it's an intriguing, innovative product and with internal prores raw
 
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Initial thoughts are some amazing success stories will come from this product but it'll still ultimately be a pain for day in, day out use.

How will it be a pain? I'm not sure yet, but I'm skeptical having just sold the last of our DJI Inspire2/x7 package.

Not all of these will translate to the 4D but things like random firmware updates, not remembering camera settings, cables not recognised as being connected when connected and various other quirks/bugs that you find out about on the day and have to find a way to make it work. These are different from known annoyances like not being able to apply a LUT, where a client can wrap their head around the issue ahead of time or look into other options before shooting. They make for slightly embarrassing conversations on the day like "not sure what's going on" or "this has never happened before" despite extensive use in the field.

This seems like a flagship of sorts in this space for DJI so I'm sure they've given it a decent amount of attention and the drone products are a different beast, but we still need to hear many more reports.

I'm struggling to believe someone like Erik Messerschmidt would actually use this system given the types of projects he's likely to be shooting. Even if he's happy with the camera's sensor, the system is limited to using max 800g lenses (could be wrong, early numbers). Surely he'd opt for a trinity operator and the lenses of his choice, unless he just immensely enjoyed the wireless workflow and small package. I understand the video is meant to be representative of what's possible but I can't see larger productions using the 4D.

The Z axis and wireless abilities could be the best parts of the whole launch. 20,000 feet? What the hell is happening?

Also, I wasn't wowed by any of the results! At 04:15 we hear from Xiaoshi Zhao saying a ronin 2 or steadicam would need a ramp compared with the 4D, which lets the operator move down stairs. But then they don't show us that footage (04:30)! They also don't show the crane transition and cut to after the camera has been mounted. These two scenarios would perfectly demonstrate the fourth axis being taken care of.

I doubt Rachel Morrison's shot at 05:01 would make the cut of a real shoot - the shot ends poorly composed and shaky. "System in use" was obviously the focus but why neglect the results if you're going to all that effort?

These examples hint at potential but largely feel rushed and incomplete, which I guess is exactly what I'm expecting from the 4D so maybe the launch campaign nailed the brief?

At this point in time I'd still rather avoid gimbals on set and live in a mechanical camera movement world with highly sophisticated post software giving us choices to dial in how smooth we want or don't want the shot.

All of these views could change in an instant, it's one of those products that needs longer time to process..
 
rob norton said:
The smaller gimbals are pretty good, waiting for movi pros and ronin 2s still sucks IMO.
Click to expand...

At that point I think it's a serious question about if this camera competes with the cameras you'd put on heavier rigs. Maybe it does. But I don't think anyone will choose this over a MILF just because it gimbals more easily. It's only vs mirrorless cameras and low-end cine cameras that one would glance at the spec sheet and say yeah, that looks good enough
 
mico said:
The fact that they got around Reds troll troll patent by separating lens from recorder body allowing them to use prores raw and variations of makes me love this this even more.
Click to expand...

Actually, I did a little reading up on it, and believe it or not, there really is a patent on RED RAW!

In fact, a little known company with an army of 500 lawyers and a one billion dollar war chest, along with a patent appeal board that has eagerly invalidated over 2,000 patents - so many in fact that the supreme court was even looking into its legality - could not even overturn it. For lack of evidence. Imagine that.

RED's patent is completely legitimate and they are right to defend it, just as every other company has an obligation to protect their intellectual property. Of course, those who don't believe in the rule of law are welcome to think otherwise.

It's always amusing to read all the online pundits who think they know more about image processing than Graeme Nattress or more about patent law than Apple's or Sony's attorneys.

Interestingly, no one even blinks an eye when it comes to manufacturers charging as much as $4,000.00 USD for a RAW license or up to $3,800.00 for a full frame or HFR license, something which RED has never done.

Every single user without exception has said the R3D workflow is one of the greatest things ever about shooting RED, so of course everyone wants a piece of that action. hehe

So it's incredible that you can actually own a RED KOMODO with 6k and global shutter, along with filmic looking grain and perfect colorimetry, - a camera already used on countless high end productions - for little more than the cost of an ARRIRAW license key.

Incidentally, a patent troll is a company that obtains the rights to one or more patents in order to profit by means of licensing or litigation, rather than by producing its own goods or services, so it's impossible in this universe for RED to be a patent troll.
 
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I think its takes the gimbal idea in a good direction. Everything is ready to go put a rangefinder prime on it like a 35mm 1.4 Zeiss or Leica with follow focus ring on it. The nice thing its ready to go no 1 hour fiddling around. Built in NDs!!! if the color science is halfway decent this could be a very interesting option. I might even start liking gimbals.
 
I have the sneaking suspicion that this camera is pulling a UMP12K. it says it's for large productions. but the reality, and the price, indicate that it's for owner/ops.
 
Another take on the 4D includes some hacks for longer bigger lenses. It is the dawn of a new field of camera innovation... I think?

Chris Young



EDIT:
The more I see the more curious I become?

 
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Jon Fauer, speaking with DJi product managers, planners and engineers, asked,

Who are the potential customers and users of Ronin 4D?

"DJI strives to bring professional grade equipment to almost anyone with a creative drive. Back in 2014, we brought to market the Ronin, a 3-axis stabilized gimbal. This was different from anything that had come before and it opened up cinematically smooth video for those looking to achieve “Hollywood” quality. The new Ronin 4D meets studio requirements and also the desires of cinematographers who wish to push their own filmmaking boundaries. These were key considerations in the design of this camera system. We hope and believe that it will be embraced by everyone with a serious interest in creating professional grade productions".

The Ursa 12K can be used on high end productions like The Morning Show or just about anything else you want to use it for. The DJI 4D can also be used on high end productions, for commercial work or anything you want to use it for. But the DJI obviously has far more tricks up its sleeve than the Ursa.
 
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jonpais said:
The Ursa 12K can be used on high end productions like The Morning Show or just about anything else you want to use it for.
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Yes, but I think very few people are actually using the Ursa 12K at that level of production. It's not the A camera there either

I will say this - it makes interesting competition for the FX6. Because it can use my E-mount lenses. So I could get an FX6 for let's say $6500 with cheap batteries and use the media I own already. Or a 6K DJI 4D for $8000 or so with batteries and cheap media.

Each has its advantages. But the FX6 can't go on the gimbals I currently own whereas the 4D is a gimbal and can record internal prores RAW. FX6 has 120fps 4K full-frame, better low-light, and gets the nod for AF IMO. Plus XLRs and eND...

Nevertheless - comparable price. Very interesting...

One other thing the 4D has going for it is that -- if it becomes a famous rig, then buying one could open up additional gimbal op jobs
 
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"Leading cinematographers across the globe have been testing prototype after prototype, giving constant feedback, and working with DJI on the development of the Ronin 4D. In addition, starting today, DJI is announcing that eight of the industry’s leading and award-winning DPs will work directly with DJI and Ronin 4D for their upcoming works. These include: Rodney Charters, ASC, CNSC, NZCS; Takuro Ishizaka, JSC; Rachel Morrison, ASC; XiaoShi Zhao, CNSC; and Academy Award winners for Best Cinematography: Erik Messerschmidt, ASC; Claudio Miranda, ASC; and Peter Pau, HKSC." - Newsshooter
 
Please Jon, quote me more marketing language. Feel free to mention the GM advantage as well if the spirit moves you. These mom and pop outfits need all the love and support we can volunteer
 
ahalpert said:
Please Jon, quote me more marketing language. Feel free to mention the GM advantage as well if the spirit moves you. These mom and pop outfits need all the love and support we can volunteer
Click to expand...

It's DJI saying they're going to be working together with the directors on their next project. That should interest anyone who's eager to see what the camera is capable of. Several people have expressed that wish. Which grabs my interest, too.
 
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this is true, but they could be sponsors. I'll just be surprised if a $10k camera (which is also a gimbal...when pro gimbals by themselves run into that pricing territory already) -- if a $10k camera can really compete enough with $40k+ cameras that are compatible with superior lenses to the degree that this unit does more than just gimbal work, or even just difficult gimbal work, or even anything at all on a venice or MILF project

I'm not saying it's not a really cool device. And obviously it doesn't really matter to me if it ends up on big budget stuff because I don't shoot big budget stuff.

I am feeling a little sour, though, looking at the lens compatibility list. Not even a 24-70 f/2.8, let alone a telephoto zoom. counterweights required for my 50 1.2... it feels like a step backwards from what I can do with a mirrorless camera on a ronin-s or even a weebill. OK, I get it - I'm operating at a totally different equilibrium point. My fx3 and a7siii record a lower quality codec and lack a lot of the features and design of the 4D. But I don't have trouble as it is going up and down stairs smoothly. I can do 4k120fps without a crop (ok, 1.1x). I can fly my rig all day without an easyrig and without killing my back
 
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