Lighting kit options for more 'filmic' look

Mj882

Mj882

Well-known member
I'm unsure on which kit to purchase that would be more suitable for a 'filmic' look. I'll be shooting on the HPX171e along with the Letus Elite adapter, so good lighting is pretty much essential.

These are the 2 Lowel Kits that I'm considering in buying:

1. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/285886-REG/Lowel_LCP_944LB_Rifa_eX_Pro_44.html

2. http://www.dvcreators.net/lowel-dvcreators-light-kits/

(I'd go for the soft case option; $858.50)


Note: I'm not going for a low key high contrast look.
 
Either kit, in the right hands, could produce a 'filmic' look. It isn't about the lights, it's how you use them.

I would personally go with the kit that provides higher output, as you'll need to get as much light back as possible. But that's just me :)
 
I highly recommend the Lowel kits. Used properly, you can acheive great results. My advice is, buy the best kit your budget permits. You'll end up finding it's difficult to have too many lights.

I purchased this kit a couple of months ago and have been very pleased:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/285929-REG/Lowel_DV_903Z_DV_Creator_55_Four.html#includes

Since then, I've purchased another Tota-light, stand and flag to even out background lighting when I'm shooting green screen. The kit I bought included a hard case with wheels which--believe me--is extremely valuable when carting 50-ish pounds around.

I think you'll get similar advice from a lot of people on this board... Buy the best quality gear you can afford now add to it as funds permit.

Good luck.
 
Rifa 44 doesn't quite have the output needed to be used with a 35mm adapter IMO. I would take a look at its bigger brothers (Rifa 55 and 66)
 
Completing a set of lights

Completing a set of lights

I thought I'd post something related here instead of starting another new "which lights" thread.

On the advice of our salesman, my wife and I bought a Rifa 44 and 55 (tungstens) for doing basic lighting set-ups. Setting aside for the moment that it's turning out to be a softer look than I'd prefer, we could obviously use a hair light and backlight.

I've been browsing the archives and see the Cool Lights tungstens and Lowel Pro-Lights and Omnis being recommended (with some doubts about the Lowel stands). I've found cheaper options on some used gear sites, but I don't know the brands; I'd willing to pay a little more for something reputable.

I'm wishing now we'd simply started with something like the DV Creator kit from Lowel and built from there, but that was then, this is now. Am I better just sticking with Lowel and getting a Pro-Light and Omni (which would have been cheaper as a used kit; rrrr), or would we be better served going with something else?

Thanks,

Clint
 
I always suggest people to not buy kits and piecemeal their lighting package together. You will get a much more customizable setup to fit your particular style. Plus you can buy used which will save you a lot of money. For the $850 you plan on spending on that kit you can get so much more and much higher quality, take a look on eBay.
 
DV Creator Kits are not bad at all - I picked one up used just for the Rifa (about for the price of a new Rifa) - I LOVE the pro lights. Little and they'll tuck in anywhere. Omni I could do without but I've got 300 / 650 fresnels in it's place from another kit.

To start though, consider this a good start. Don't be afraid to go out and play with fluro bulbs / fixtures too. Add some larger Arri's down the line and possibly some Kino's - you'll have a great kit that will tackle a ton of jobs.

cheno
 
I'd buy your lights used if I were you. I saved so much money by putting together my own kit.

$850 can go so far when you buy used.
 
Hmm a variety of different opinions, if I didnt buy a kit and I opted with 'piecemealing' it together, I wouldn't know what ones to buy specifically. Any advice ones I should buy individually for a cheaper outcome (most likely second hand too).
 
I was thinking of buying a Britek kit for about $300 - 1950 watts - for the same purposes (sgpro adapter and hmc150). Has anyone worked with Briteks before? Is there a reason they're so cheap?
 
Alex_R said:
I was thinking of buying a Britek kit for about $300 - 1950 watts - for the same purposes (sgpro adapter and hmc150). Has anyone worked with Briteks before? Is there a reason they're so cheap?
Click to expand...

They have plastic bodies. They don't last as long.
 
DM_rider said:
I'd buy your lights used if I were you. I saved so much money by putting together my own kit.

$850 can go so far when you buy used.
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Where are y'all looking for used lighting? Or at least *what* are y'all looking for used?

I spent all week comparing prices on Lowels, Cool Lights, etc., both on kits and separately, and the prices I was finding for separates--on Ebay, on Amazon, on various used lighting places I found through Google--was going to be almost as much as I'd pay for, say, a DV Creator kit from Lowel. Except that with the kit I also get the gels, gel frames, barn doors, and a soft carrying case.

Now that I've decided to just stick with my Rifa 55 and 44 for key and fill, despite the softness, I just need a rim and back. How much should I be able to get those for used, for something reputable? I can't find anything under about $250, and that's without stands.

Am I just not looking at the right places, or at the wrong products? What do I need, and where should I be looking?

Thanks,

Clint
 
Mj882 said:
Hmm a variety of different opinions, if I didnt buy a kit and I opted with 'piecemealing' it together, I wouldn't know what ones to buy specifically. Any advice ones I should buy individually for a cheaper outcome (most likely second hand too).
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http://www.bluesky-web.com/light-kit.htm

This is the kit "bible" as far as I am concerned. I own four regular kits and I like Walter's ideas more than his exact choice of instruments. In lighting, everything is concept and plan, doesn't really matter if you use a Rifa, Chimera or a Kino Diva, all three are your "soft key source". Same with Walter's idea, cram as much light kit as possible into one case. I also like his idea of the Omnis because Omnis are cheap, beater lights and if you put them in case like this, they are going to get a little scratched up but will still do their job well.

I love my Arris but they are not as good for this type of guerilla-style lighting kit because they are too large and fragile. I would rather have three Omnis than one Arri 650 (the cost is similar). Lowels are built kind of cheap but they get the job done and cost very little. If you are low budget, it is ridiculous to buy a pre-packaged kit from Lowel or Arri or anyone else. If you have some intelligence, you craft your kit to your needs.

What is great about this approach is that you don't waste money on a bunch of junk you will never use and you can include bizarre combinations of light and grip gear that totally make sense for how YOU work on set.

I am drifting away from tungsten lighting lately as I have been shooting a lot of small groups of actors and non-pros in multicamera scenes. I love the Kinos because they don't turn the room into a blast furnace like my bigger tungsten lights do. Also have been doing some interesting stuff with the new Cool Lights LED600s. Point is, personally I think most lighting kits are more useful to pros than to newbies. If you are a pro and know what you need to light a certain job, you can look at an Arri Softlight IV kit and know, "oh, I need to supplement and add a boom arm, three Mafers, an extra 300 watt fresnel for a kicker. Newbies don't know any of this stuff. They get to a shoot and open the kit and try to use it all and still don't have all of the right grip gear and may have too little or too much light for their needs. But newbies also are generally clueless so they think that buying a lighting "kit" has them "set" for lighting, when nothing could be further than the truth, other than maybe for single talking heads.

Dan
 
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First off, thanks for the link. Superb over- and under-view.

That said, you might be misreading our--at least my--intent in wanting to buy a particular kit.

puredrifting said:
But newbies also are generally clueless so they think that buying a lighting "kit" has them "set" for lighting, when nothing could be further than the truth, other than maybe for single talking heads.
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I'm a definitive newbie, but I definitely know better than to think that I can get any particular kit and be done, or even be barely started. The only reason I'm looking at kits is, as I indicated above, they seem more cost-effective for getting some core lights that I'll be needing than trying to buy them separately. If I can find the lights that I need separately for less, I'm all for it. I prefer it, in fact. I'm not typically a kit-oriented guy.

I *am* going to be doing a lot of documentary style, single- and two-person interviews, so I need the basics, however I can best find them. And I'll build from there.

But at the moment, I need a rim light and backlight that will play well with the tungsten Rifa 44 and 55 the nice salesman told me I should get. And they need to be something that won't crap out on me or otherwise disappoint me too soon.

Frankly I don't care if they're Lowels, Cool Lights, whatever. I just want them to be quality, and if they happen to cost less together in a kit, the more's the better.
 
If you need help figuring out what types of lights you need to fit your style work a few jobs with a good DP and Gaffer as an electrician, or a PA. Watch what they use and the result. Then you can start choosing instruments for your kit.

BTW, don't forget grip equipment. Things like clamps can be very expensive but having a variety can be an immense help.
 
texvanwinkle said:
First off, thanks for the link. Superb over- and under-view.

That said, you might be misreading our--at least my--intent in wanting to buy a particular kit.



I'm a definitive newbie, but I definitely know better than to think that I can get any particular kit and be done, or even be barely started. The only reason I'm looking at kits is, as I indicated above, they seem more cost-effective for getting some core lights that I'll be needing than trying to buy them separately. If I can find the lights that I need separately for less, I'm all for it. I prefer it, in fact. I'm not typically a kit-oriented guy.

I *am* going to be doing a lot of documentary style, single- and two-person interviews, so I need the basics, however I can best find them. And I'll build from there.

But at the moment, I need a rim light and backlight that will play well with the tungsten Rifa 44 and 55 the nice salesman told me I should get. And they need to be something that won't crap out on me or otherwise disappoint me too soon.

Frankly I don't care if they're Lowels, Cool Lights, whatever. I just want them to be quality, and if they happen to cost less together in a kit, the more's the better.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
Mj882 said:
Hmm a variety of different opinions, if I didnt buy a kit and I opted with 'piecemealing' it together, I wouldn't know what ones to buy specifically. Any advice ones I should buy individually for a cheaper outcome (most likely second hand too).
Click to expand...

Dan posted a link to a source of info. You might also consider investing a few bucks in a book or DVD that explains lighting. Doug Jensen's Vortex DVD on interview lighting is very good. He even provides a shopping list and part numbers. Like others who responded, Doug advises against kits because you get what the manufacturer wants to sell you, not what you need.

Not everyone agrees with Doug's shopping list but it's a place to start and if you watch the DVD you can get a good sense of what you can add or subtract from the kit.

If you search this forum you'll find dozens of posts similar to yours. Read them. You'll find lots of info but at the end of the day it really depends on what you shoot. If you need simple 3 point lighting for interviews, you should be off to a good start with a simple hand-picked kit.
 
Tex:

I keep going back to some used Lowel Omnis. They are cheap new too and are very effective because you can run them through a softbox AND they are great hard lights as well.

Cool Lights makes some nice Arri knockoffs that are reasonable if you want fresnels. Arris themselves are great, I own a dozen of them, but they are expensive for most beginners. They are also larger and more fragile. As far as a small kicker or hair light, the Lowel Pro Light is pretty good and fairly cheap.

Dan
 
Dan,

Thank you for pushing me past the tipping point. I've been leaning toward the Pro-Lights and Omnis all week, but amidst all the good things I've heard, I keep hearing about how fragile they are and it made me a little gunshy. But if someone as on the run as Graff can be happy with them, and the Texas-Emmy-award winning head of my local city video department can be happy with them, seems like I can, too.

Now a more straightforward (I think) take-me-to-school question: What's the practical difference--that is, in actual application--between the Omni and DP? (And the Tota, for that matter. I see that the Omni and DP can both serve as keys and backs, but that the DP appears to be heavier duty and brighter. Why would I choose one over the other?
 
Hi:

1. Forget the Tota. Totas are a broad source and are really only good for use in a softbox as far as I am concerned. Possibly can be good for lighting green screens if you plan to do a lot of that.

2. Omnis cost a mere $154.95 new and can be bought in a 30V DC version and lamped with 300, 420 and 500 watt globes in 120V and in 500 and 300 watt configs for 240V overseas shoots.

3. Lowel DP Light costs $174.95 new and can be bought as AC configuration only. Can be lamped with 1,000, 750 and 500 watt globes in 120V and 1,000 and 500 watt in 240V. DP light is also physically larger than Omni and weighs 3.6 lbs, a full pound heavier than the Omni.

I rarely see people using DPs and I see a lot of people that use Omnis. Bear in mind, Lowel lights are kind of fragile and from an engineering POV, they are junk. But they are so simple that they rarely break down, it's just small things like the bar doors bend too easily (oh yeah, you have to buy barn doors separately for either Lowel), which is normal, hardly anybody sells lights and includes the barndoors in the main price, although a few do.

These are open faced lights, meaning they are harder to control than a fresnel but they are lighter in weight, cheaper and don't have a Borosilicate fresnel lens that will break when your lighting case tips over.

You see how Walter has used and abused his, they are really thrashed. But as long as they work, who cares? That's the thing, I have had my Arri lights in various kits and when they get thrashed, I get bent out of shape. An Arri 650 fresnel with barn doors and a scrim set is almost six hundred dollars. An Omni with 500 watts of open face, therefore about the same output as the Arri 650 fresnel (fresnels lenses eat some light efficiency), a set of doors and scrims is under $260.00 new. So which is better? The Arri, by far, it is like comparing a Porsche with a Corolla. But the end result, the light, can look almost identical with a skilled gaffer or DP. The Omnis get the job done, I highly recommend them for people who aren't crazy like me and spending $50k on lights. I am a light junky, I have three light kits (two Arri Softbank kits, a Lowell four light kit, ten various tungsten instruments from Arri 150 fresnel all of the way up to Mighty Mole 2k, six Graff lights (look that up on Walter's site), two Kino Flo Diva 200s, two Cool Light LED 600s and I have more on the way. IMHO, you can never have too many lights. Oh yeah, I also have about 50 different sets of twinkle lights, fairy lights, Ikea PARs, Ikea glowing glass orb lights, consumer LED light bars, etc.) I have all those lights yet I am still going to buy some Omnis because they are light, small and cheap and if I lose one or it gets damaged, it is much more disposable than an Arri or Mole.

Dan
 
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