I really need some help, please - Stuck on documentary story

IjabaFilms

IjabaFilms

Well-known member
Hi everyone,

I'm really stuck here. I filmed a doc last year that was originally about two identical twins I went to high school with. They have an awesome relationship and was always very happy. I tend to try to do more positive/educational type docs for families and institutions so this is where this thing is getting hairy.

This is an entirely positive story which is great but of course it means one has to really be on top of things with the story telling as not to have a film that feels too unnatural. This doesn't mean there is nothing juicy in their story but I'm struggling to identify the meat or at least get a better feel for what I think the meat is.

What in the world is this thing about?
This is the question I keep asking as I'm editing. The reason is this... The story first started off being about these twins and their great relationship but of course when I filmed it... well It seems more than that. Yes these two have a story to tell about being twins but when watching this, there just seems to be such a big thing about the functioning of their family that has contributed to them being who they are.

There are 8 kids and the twins are 5 and 6 of 8. Two of the kids are from another marriage and now they are a family of 30 total... actually 32 since the filming of the movie and everyone really gets along. So I'm trying to blend these two pressing themes. This film is centered around the twins but it is also about how everyone interacts as well, with their father being the most important person for all of the kids. And there are some interesting age gaps too with the oldest brother being 13 years older than the twins and the youngest sister being about 4 years younger than them.


Some key items covered:
- Relationship between identical twins
-Relationship between the twins and other siblings, parents and sig figs
- Relationship between siblings and parents and how they relate tot he twins
** The above covers the life span of the twins from birth til now

- One twin is gay, the other straight - This was all positive too so I didn't really beat this topic into the ground. I wanted it to blend in with the rest of the film
- Interview with gay twin's partner who is also a twin about her relationship and about her relationship with her own twin sister

- Sports importance to this family (this is actually a pretty binding thing for them)
- The twin's sports history
- The twins coach little league softball team

- some talk about their parents coming from Cuba (this I think is more to help paint a fuller picture about their family)

Other chats I could use or leave out:
-interviews with one twin's kids
-interview with twin's niece
- interview with close friend of the twins who grew up next door to them and is considered the 9th child of the family

B-Roll:
Twins coaching softball games with daughter and niece (I filmed this)
Twins in winning 1986 little league world series game (home video)
Birth of one twin's kids (home video)
Various other home video stuff involving the family and/or the twins


I've begged all over the place for some help with this but to no avail. I have spoken with a very good story consultant but she can't help me until I get the film down to 2 hours. I think I can do that once I figure out this story.


I create two trailers for this film and I realized when I made them that they really represent the two themes I'm trying to merge. Here they are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru-FTo1o8hI&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sul0c3gzodY&fmt=18

I know it's hard to give your thoughts when you haven't seen all the footage but I've tried to give as much info as I can.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and time.
 
!. Who is this story for?
2. What do you want to say to them?
3. Why do you want to say that to them?
4. Say it using the material you have.

Its a didactic art form. There is a story I heard about Frank Capra getting a hold of Nazi Propaganda and Re-Editing it to get our troops more excited about going over to fight. Hitler saw this film and flipped. Pretty funny IMHO.

Same thing. Imagine someone else shot this stuff and you inhereted it. You have a relationship with someone that person represents a certain demographic. You want to say something to that person and can only express yourself using this footage. Its a letter, a conversation, a language. Fisrt you must know who you are speaking to and why then you can shape your message and point of view.

Sounds exciting. Female same sex twins and you can`t find something to say about it? Man give me a camera and hook me up with them I will figure something out ...

DogDay.
 
DogDay said:
!. Who is this story for?
2. What do you want to say to them?
3. Why do you want to say that to them?
4. Say it using the material you have.


Sounds exciting. Female same sex twins and you can`t find something to say about it? Man give me a camera and hook me up with them I will figure something out ...

DogDay.
Click to expand...

Very awesome advice! This was the most helpful bit of information I've heard in many years. It's so easy to get stuck in silly land. This info forces me to look at this from a different angle, I was too stuck to see.


1. Who is this story for?

Families, particularly ones with multiples, academic courses (Psychology, Sociology, etc.)



2. What do you want to say to them?

That closeness takes work that is more than simple blood inheritance and expands beyond blood inheritance. And that there are real things individuals and families can do to create this closeness.



3. Why do you want to say that to them?

Because many families struggle with basic things like : communication, dealing effectively with conflict, making time for each other, balancing family, divorce, cultural differences, etc. and this one family has it all and they do tangible things to make it work.



4. Say it using the material you have.

Whole new thought process here. Thanks for this!


It's not that I can't find anything to say about it. It's that there is too much to say. The film is nearly 6 hours long, not including B-roll (will be roughly this length broken down into concepts for the academic release).

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
- One twin is gay, the other straight - This was all positive too so I didn't really beat this topic into the ground. I wanted it to blend in with the rest of the film
- Interview with gay twin's partner who is also a twin about her relationship and about her relationship with her own twin sister
Click to expand...

I think scrap the documentary and just turn that gay twin thing into a feature film :-D

Sorry, not being very helpful.
 
hoarp001 said:
I think scrap the documentary and just turn that gay twin thing into a feature film :-D

Sorry, not being very helpful.
Click to expand...

:) It's kinda an old theme now in gayville anyway (Red Without Blue, etc.) so I'm not really feeling it like that but I am making a feature (a comedy) about a world where being straight is considered unnatural. It's called Alternate Universe (for now). :)
http://www.stillguerrillafilms.com/
 
It would seem like I've done it again... I think the reality here is that I have in fact filmed two completely intact movies and this is really the issue I'm having. Or at least that's what it looks like. But concept wise, it feels like one.

For instance, I started seeing this thing more clearly and it felt like the movie is about the things I mentioned above however most of the footage is about the twins but not without reason. They are truly at the center of this family being that it feels like they are the bridge that binds two families together. They have their 4 older siblings and their two younger ones from a different mom. I filmed a lot about these twin's relationship and a lot about how the family actually functions to be such a close family. So I'm trying to pace the film to show what this family does in order to be so functional and at the same time present the relationship with these twins. I guess I'm having trouble with mixing all of that. I'll keep at it I guess.
 
Interesting subject and I appreciate your goal of creating a positive doc - I think you have it right that you need to figure out what the film is about. The twins or the family. That said, if it's about the family, there's no reason you can't use the twins' journey as a surrogate for the broader familial themes.

Let me play devil's advocate for a sec. Okay, so let's say the point is this family is the ideal family. I don't believe you. I don't believe that they're that perfect. So prove it to me. Show me a situation where they overcame the odds thanks to their bond. And maybe that situation, that story, those circumstances is where the core of the documentary is.

Put another way, if I'm from a functional family that has amazing relationships with each other, then this film isn't that interesting to me because I live the experience every day. If I live in a dysfunctional family, then I have nothing in common with these people because (a) I'm not a twin, and (b) they're so perfect that I can't relate to them.

Maybe it's cliche but look for the conflict. What's at stake here? If it's all high and no low, then high seems average.

Anyways, my two-cents. Best of luck! Sounds like a great project.
 
Last edited:
wearyfeet said:
Interesting subject and I appreciate your goal of creating a positive doc - I think you have it right that you need to figure out what the film is about. The twins or the family. That said, if it's about the family, there's no reason you can't use the twins' journey as a surrogate for the broader familial themes.

Let me play devil's advocate for a sec. Okay, so let's say the point is this family is the ideal family. I don't believe you. I don't believe that they're that perfect. So prove it to me. Show me a situation where they overcame the odds thanks to their bond. And maybe that situation, that story, those circumstances is where the core of the documentary is.

Put another way, if I'm from a functional family that has amazing relationships with each other, then this film isn't that interesting to me because I live the experience every day. If I live in a dysfunctional family, then I have nothing in common with these people because (a) I'm not a twin, and (b) they're so perfect that I can't relate to them.

Maybe it's cliche but look for the conflict. What's at stake here? If it's all high and no low, then high seems average.

Anyways, my two-cents. Best of luck! Sounds like a great project.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thoughts and taking time to reply. :)

However the gut punch isn't there. Even if it were, that's not a story I'd like to tell because that's not the kind of story teller I am. I know that's what is done as I've definitely watched an obscene amount of documentaries, however I don't think that is the only valuable type of documentary that can appeal to people. The film also isn't about the perfection of this family either. Because there is no such thing. I can't even touch upon such an imaginary concept.

One question I asked a friend of mine early on is how on earth do I present wisdom to the walking dead?

I have to ask myself why do docs get made about the life cycle of a tadpole? and even more importantly, why do I love them? And I'm certainly not the only one watching... Me and a friend of mine were in Germany a couple of years ago for the Frankfurt Book Fair (we are both also book publishers) and we were late getting to our booth one morning because we couldn't pull ourselves away from a documentary about some fish in a low swamp water. It wasn't even in English. My point is, while I feel my doc has a lot more going on than fish in low swamp water, I know that its not going to appeal to certain people. However every single time I watch the hours of footage, I pick up some new wisdom from these people.

The real issue I think in the end is that it is much much harder to present this film to general audiences (even my targeted audience). I will be offering an academic version and that one is super easy and I know exactly what I'm going to do.

Since the first initial post here, I have found my way and have since gotten it down to 2 hours. Now I'll be using the services of Fernanda Rossi to fine tune it.

Cheers!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top