"We appreciate your continued correspondence. . . "

My reply to Canon


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Hi XXXXXXX



I have asked you two very simple questions, I shall set them out here once more:


Q: Would you say that walking towards or away from your subject could be considered the kind of depth-of-field control found in professional video cameras?

Q: Would you say that walking towards or away from your subject could be considered a *feature* of the 5D mkII ?



In your responses you are promoting the idea that changing focal length and moving towards or away from your subject are "professional" and "amazing" depth-of-field controls found "only in professional video models", so can you please clarify this point by addressing my questions.



All the best


XXXXXX (me)

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Canon's response

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Dear XXXXXXXXXXXX (me)

If a person were to purchase a video camera, then it would be expected
that aperture and focal length could be changed automatically. However,
the EOS 5D Mark II is primarily a still camera and so is different than
a video camera. Having to physically move the camera or adjust the
focal length is simply the way the camera works. Just as settings
cannot be changed in the middle of a still image exposure, they cannot
be changed by the camera during a video exposure.

As mentioned in the White Paper, the EF lenses available to be used on
the EOS 5D Mark II provides depth of field options that would not be
found on most HD video cameras. That is the depth of field control
referred to in the documentation for the EOS 5D Mark II. If there was
ever confusion on this point, we do apologize.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

XXXXX
Online Support Coordinator


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My response to Canon


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XXXXXXXXXX

As you have not answered my questions I shall ask them again, if you decide to ignore them once more could you at least explain why it is you feel the need to side-step these questions ?


> "Having to physically move the camera or adjust the focal length is simply the way the camera works"


Q: Would you call having to walk towards or away from your subject the kind of depth-of-field control found "only in professional video models" ?

Q: And would you also call having to walk towards or away from your subject "amazing depth-of-field control" ?

Q: And can having to walk towards or away from your subject be in anyway considered a feature of the 5D mkII. ?



All the best.


XXXXXXXX (me).


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To Canon (I seemed to have hit 'radio silence' on the last reply :( maybe they don't like me any more :o :( . . )

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Hi XXXXXXX

It looks like you are unable to answer my previous questions, so I will attempt to clarify what it is you are saying by another route.

Can you answer this very simple question.

Q: Would you agree with me when I say that Canon's own literature makes the following claim with regard to depth-of-field control: "With [movie mode] activated, photographers and videographers can capture high definition video with depth-of-field control found only in professional video models . . ." ?


All the best.


XXXXXXXX (me)


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from Canon


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Dear XXXXXXXXX (me)

I do apologize that I am not able to answer you questions as you have
them written. The way they are phrased they require opinions to be
given which are beyond my ability to give (ie. I am not a professional
videographer, nor am I a design engineer). The information I am able to
provide are the specifications of the camera and how it works.

What I can say is that the depth of field control referred to in the
documentation of the EOS 5D Mark II is in regards to the lenses
available for use, which provide greater depth of field options than the
vast majority of HD video cameras as stated in the White Paper for the
EOS 5D Mark II:

"Until now, there were no affordable 1080p HD video camcorders able to
capture ultrawide or fisheye perspectives without the addition of
distortion-producing adapter lenses, and none that had the
depth-of-field control found in the EOS 5D Mark II. There are several
reasons for this: all current 3-chip HD camcorders, even those costing
over $10,000, use 1/3-inch (or smaller) format sensors with pixels that
are approximately 1/10 the size of those found in the EOS 5D Mark II.
Pixel size primarily affects the light sensitivity and noise levels,
with smaller pixels being less sensitive and producing higher noise.
Using 3 sensors to capture individual RGB color channels helps to
improve light sensitivity and reduce overall noise to some extent. But
the sensor size affects the focal length required to deliver a normal
zoom range, and because of the small sensor size, most camcorders
feature lenses with focal lengths that start around 5mm and extend to
50mm (for a 10x zoom) or 100mm (for a 20x zoom that’s roughly equivalent
to 400mm focal length on a full-frame camera such as the EOS 5D Mark II)
Depth of field at any given aperture increases as focal length
decreases, so for most focal length positions on a typical HD camcorder,
it's nearly impossible to blur background elements when shooting a
portrait or closeup. On the other hand, even an EF 50mm f/1.4 USM lens
mounted on an EOS 5D Mark II will provide narrower depth of field at all
apertures compared to the fully zoomed-in focal length on most
camcorders. And few video cameras in existence can match the narrow
depth of field of Canon’s EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM lens used by many
top-end portrait shooters. Because of these unique video recording
traits and the versatility provided by Canon’s EF lens system, the EOS
5D Mark II should be as attractive to serious videographers as it is to
advanced and professional still photographers."

We do regret if there has been any confusion on this point.

Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX
Online Support Coordinator



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my reply to Canon


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Hi XXXXX.

> "Please let us know if we can be of any further assistance."

It would be great if you could forward my enquiry to someone who might be able to answer it.


Let me set it out clearly:

The following claims (amongst others of a similar nature) are made for the Canon 5D mkII in the Canon 5D mkII WHITE PAPER:


**". . . videographers can capture high definition video with depth-of-field control found only in professional video models . . ."**

**". . . The EOS 5D Mark II (in the context of videographer). . . provides amazing depth-of-field control . . ."**


(pages 6 and 14 respectively).


My question of what might this control be is met with a response that basically says reframe your shot with a different focal length or walk towards or away from your subject:


> "To control the depth of field, changing the distance between you and the
> subject, or changing the focal length being used is recommended. These
> are the only means at your own control for changing the depth of field."

> "Having to physically move the camera or adjust the focal length is simply the way the camera works"


This leads me to a simple and unambiguous question:

Q: Does Canon consider having to reframe your shot or having to walk towards or away from your subject the kind of depth-of-field control found only in professional video models ?



Thanks in advance for your reply.




XXXXXX (me)

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Canon's response

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Dear XXXXXX (me)

I am going to escalate your case to our Customer Relations Department
for review and ask them to contact you. Please allow them sufficient
time to research your email history and make contact with you. One of
our Customer Relations Representatives will contact you as soon as
possible.

I appreciate your continued patience.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX
Online Support Coordinator


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my response

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Thank you for your help Renee.

I look forward to the Customer Relations Department's response.




XXXX (me)


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From Canon


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Good morning XXXXXX (me)

Thank you for contacting Canon via email regarding your EOS 5D Mk II.
Your emails were forwarded to the Customer Relations department for
further follow-up.

Even though you have several questions you would like answered,
unfortunately I am not a technician. I will speak with my Camera
Technical Support engineers and contact you back as soon as I have
information to share.

Regards,
XXXXXX
Canon USA Customer Relations


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Canon's reply


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1/30/09

Good Afternoon XXXXXXX (me)

Thank you for allowing me the time it took to respond to your emails
regarding the EOS 5D Mark II. I have reviewed the Overview and Video
Recording sections of the White Paper for the EOS 5D Mark II. I also
reviewed the cameras Manual, Section 6 regarding Live View Shooting and
Movies. The combination of this information is clearly in depth and
should answer your questions.

Regarding the questions raised in your emails please be advised that the
EOS 5D Mark II does include automatic features within the video mode
that need no adjustment, because the camera was developed to assist in
the video mode. While not the primary function of the camera, the video
mode is an additional function featuring 30 fps, 1080p FULL HD video
recording with sound.

There are 4 factors that contribute to depth of field: focal length,
aperture, sensor size, and subject distance. With the EOS 5D Mark II
you do not have control over sensor size and aperture. In a purpose
built video camera you have control over focal length and aperture. The
EOS 5D II is not a purpose built video camera. It is a professional
standard Digital SLR with a video mode. Your only method of controlling
depth of field is by manipulating focal length and subject distance.

Your email suggests that you have already been advised that the depth of
field in movie mode can be effectively controlled by manipulating
subject distance and focal length. To increase the depth of field in
movie mode, move away from the subject and/or reduce the focal length of
the lens. To reduce depth of field in movie mode, move closer to the
subject and/or increase the focal length of the lens. With portable
video shooting, this is exactly how you may choose to shoot.

If you are looking for a professional level video camera, we would
suggest one of the following cameras: XL H1S, XL H1A, XL H1, XH G1S, XH
A1S, XH G1, or XH A1. All of these video cameras are capable of full
aperture control, allowing greater control over the depth of field.

We appreciate your comments.

Much Regards,
XXXXXXX
Canon USA Customer Relations


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my reply to Canon



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Hi XXXXXXX.

Thanks for the reply, but somewhat bizarrely it ignores my core question yet again.

I will ask it again:

You say: "Your only method of controlling depth of field is by manipulating focal length and subject distance"

Q: Do you consider this to be the kind of depth of field control found in professional camcorders ?



Yours in hope (!)


XXXXX (me)



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To Canon

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Hi XXXXXXX

It has just come to my attention that your last response to me was a form letter (others have received the same email, made to appear as if it were from other Canon support staff), although signed by yourself - was most probably not written by yourself and without a doubt was not specific to my question - this I know because my question was ignored.

It has become more than apparent that Canon customer/technical support have no intention to engage in this question, so can I ask where I should direct my enquiries.




All the best.

XXXX (me)


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from Canon

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Dear Canon Customer,

Thank you for your e-mail inquiry. Your message has been received. We
look forward to assisting you. We will respond to your request during
our normal business hours of 6:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m., Eastern Standard
Time.

Canon has a very comprehensive self-help KnowledgeBase which enables
most customers to find their answer easily and immediately, without
waiting for an email response. As a result, we encourage our customers
to try our KnowledgeBase at:

http://www.canontechsupport.com

This is an automated response, please do not reply.

Best regards,
Canon eCare


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To Canon Feb 4th (a few days later)

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Ref: KMM9478569V466xxxxxxxx

Hi there,

This is just a quick email to make sure my enquiry has not got lost in your system !



All the best.


XXXXXX (me)

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To Canon Feb 5th

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Ref: KMM9478569V466xxxxxxxx

Hi there,

This is just a quick email to make sure my enquiry has not got lost in your system !



All the best.


XXXXXX (me)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 
To Canon (Still no reply) Feb 7th


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Ref: KMM9478569V466xxxxxxxx

Hi there,

This is just a quick email to make sure my enquiry has not got lost in your system !

Or should I resend my enquiry ?


All the best.


XXXXXX (me)

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 
So . . . . .

What seems clear now is that Canon would appear to be ignoring the issue of their depth of field control claims rather than engaging in the question.


It has been over a week since my question was asked (and repeatedly chased up), so I sent an email from my girlfriends email account . . . . . obviously ignore the content, this was simply an attempt to see whether it was myself being ignored or just that the response was slow in general.

The result was that of course it is the issue of depth of field control claims that are apparently being ignored - as my girlfirned had a response the same afternoon. Like I say the content is irrelevant (although I was amused to see Canon not answering the simple question "will this (taking a picture) stop the video from recording") I include the emails here just for a complete history.



. . . . . . . . .
To Canon from my girlfriend


Hello there,

I have a question about my Canon 5D mark II camera, well it is not really about the camera it is about the video part.

When I am filming with the video part, can I take a still picture - and will this stop the video from recording.



Thank you

K.

. . . . . . . . .

Canon's response



Dear XXXXXX

Thank you for your inquiry. We value you as a Canon customer and
appreciate the opportunity to assist you. We have the requested
information regarding your EOS 5D Mark II.

During Live View or Movie shooting you can shoot still images by
pressing the shutter button completely.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we
can be of any further assistance with your EOS 5D Mark II.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

XXXX

Technical Support Representative


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A fresh attempt ! - To Canon


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Hi there.

I have a simple question that I would be very grateful if you could see your way to answering.


In the Canon 5D White Paper the following claims are made:


**". . . videographers can capture high definition video with depth-of-field control found only in professional video models . . ."**

**". . . The EOS 5D Mark II . . . provides amazing depth-of-field control . . ."**

**". . . and none that had the depth-of-field control found in the EOS 5D Mark II . . ."**


I have made a few enquiries (ref: KMM9506888V24931L0KM) and have been told by more that one Canon customer support staff that the only available depth-of-field controls are - walking towards or away from your subject and changing the lens (or focal length) to force a deeper (or shallower) depth of field.

So my question is: does Canon consider this kind of control the sort found only in professional video models ?

At this stage I would be more than happy with a simple 'yes' or a 'no'.


All the best


XXXXXX (me)
 
Still no reply for the email above from a couple of days ago.

To Canon

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Hi,

Is there anyone there I could put a question to ?

If not, could I have the email address of somewhere within Canon willing to answer a few simple questions.





All the best.


XXXXXX (me)



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From Canon

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Dear XXXXXXX (me)

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the EOS 5D Mark II. We value you
as a Canon customer and appreciate the opportunity to assist you.

We would be more than happy to answer your questions regarding the EOS
5D Mark II. Please reply to this message and include any questions you
may have.

We look forward to your reply with the information we have requested
regarding the EOS 5D Mark II.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXX
Technical Support Representative


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