Panasonic Lay offs: Is the HVX Dead?

V

Vincent Pascoe

Well-known member
What does the future look like for our HVX's? Panasonic Closing 27 plants and laying off 15,000 workers how is our world going to change?

I used to be a Sony lover... yep I admit it, back in the PD150 Days. (I even,wile homeless, bought a Sony Vaio a litterly Useless boat ancor of a laptop...)

Then I got to shoot one music video on a Panasonic DVX-100, I was blown away by the professional options on a prosumer camera. What really got to me was the Respect I felt that Panasonic had for the camera users. And that really progressed into The HVX, giving us DP's solid Creative tools Like over cranking on a Low budget camera.

Now things are really changing up in the industry, with competitors like Cheap for what it does RED, Still cameras that shoot HD like the D90 and Mark III, and scarlet looming on the horizon, and the Economy.

I'm using the HVX less. I Cut my Music Video Demo Reel this week and realized that there's 5 shots in it from My HVX-200 (there hidden in there) and wondering if I should cut them out.

http://vimeo.com/2976250

I wonder if due to the economy the HVX might be used more offten? due to shrinking budgets, and less capital for new cameras. Or will the HVX not get used at all since they can get a RED for the same rental.

What will become of Panasonic and the HVX in the years to come?

VP

Vincent Pascoe
www.vincentpascoe.blogspot.com
 
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I dont think "we" will see any marked difference, because they are closing factories. Panasonic just released a new batch of cameras (well not too long ago). Other Industries may who knows.

Vincent Pascoe said:
Or will the HVX not get used at all since they can get a RED for the same rental.
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HVX will be used and will be around for some time. The day I see any RED rent for the same price as a 200 is the day I will eat my hat.
 
You can get a RED rental pretty cheap. That's the problem with the RED market to begin with. People own them that have no business owning them and to cover their losses they take pennies for their gear.

It's also the reason these same people are pretty much walking in place. If you take a look at who gets the most rentals it would be the Camera Houses that people pay full price for. These are places where you're more likely to get a back-up camera as well.

Panasonic isn't going anywhere. If I told you what I get for an HPX170 rental you'd lay bricks in your boxers. I know most RED owners look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them how much my bare HPX package goes out for constantly, and even more the Letus Ultimate HPX170.

These are the reasons why I can't let myself TOTALLY kick Panasonic to the side, regardless of having a RED to shoot wherever, whenever. There's so many people that love the P2 Workflow and more are still adopting by the week.

They've got a hold on my pocket... I hope the HPX300 clears up my discrepancies with the HPX/HVX (Sub HPX3000) image quality...
 
It's got nothing to do with Broadcast; Panasonic is having a heyday in broadcast, the HVX is plenty safe.

It's the global economic slowdown. Sony just laid off 16,000 (8,000 full-time and 8,000 contract workers), about 4% of its global workforce, and closed about 10% of its factories.

Panasonic is laying off about 5% of its workforce and closing about 12% of its factories.

Canon just laid off 1200 workers, but I don't know what percentage of their workforce that accounts for.

JVC laid off 1800 employees (30% of its workforce) about 18 months ago.

SanDisk is laying off about 15% of its workforce.

Things may get worse before it gets better. But to address the original post: with Panasonic bragging that it's landed 85% of the HD broadcast market in Europe, it sure seems likely that the P2/broadcast segment is doing fine and shouldn't be impacted nearly as much as perhaps some other product lines. According to that article, "Sales slid in a wide range of products, including flat-panel TVs, DVD recorders, microwaves, lamps and semiconductors". Actually, Broadcast is a comparatively tiny division, compared to what they sell in consumer electronics and raw components.
 
I agree this won't be devistating to Panasonic's Broadcast line.
I would expect to see them slow down on the number of new product lines for a while though. That's one place you see companies cut back as in the auto industry.
But this also helps really big progress to be made to show up the competition. Just not 7 varieties of it per company. :)
JMHO
 
I can tell you that all of our wallets would be better off if Panasonic, Sony and Canon DIDN'T introduce new camcorders every 18 months. I like the old days when I had my Betacam for six years and it was bascially fine, I didn't lust after the latest and greatest every three months.

We are all shooting HD with cheap camcorders that make relatively great images. Why not leave it at that for a couple of more years, we can all pay off our credit cards, send our kids to college and make a living with what we have. ;-) Yeah, right, like that's going to happen...

Dan
 
I have an original HVX and was thinking about getting a 200A or 170. Problem is, we all know the only real difference is in low light noise levels and 90% of my stock footage is well lit. Recently I tried a fellow DVX user's scene file out for size (involving low master ped and reduced detail settings) and am currently very happy with what I am getting, so no new camera until something mind blowing comes out.
 
mainstreetprod said:
I have an original HVX and was thinking about getting a 200A or 170. Problem is, we all know the only real difference is in low light noise levels and 90% of my stock footage is well lit. Recently I tried a fellow DVX user's scene file out for size (involving low master ped and reduced detail settings) and am currently very happy with what I am getting, so no new camera until something mind blowing comes out.
Click to expand...

The HVX is still a great camera.
 
I have two - looking at getting a third - and they work 4-5 days a week... probably won't upgrade unless something truly amazing comes along or a job comes up that will pay for the upgrade.


G.
 
Vincent Pascoe said:
I Cut my Music Video Demo Reel this week and realized that there's 5 shots in it from My HVX-200 (there hidden in there) and wondering if I should cut them out.
Click to expand...
Are you implying that you no longer will be able to create this "look" and therefore must take it out of your reel?

I think most of the Panasonic Plant Closures have to do with Plasma TV's
I think the camera line is doing OK.
 
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The Broadcast Group is fine, yes we had a few layoffs as well but the product line and new product introductions are fine.

The world economy is just doing a restructure to what we really can afford. People buying million dollar houses with a $300000 house income is part of what got all of us here. The consumer industries have been hit the hardest, but our industry is affected by things like the SAG not getting over its wanting to call a strike and cripple the industry even more than the writers did a year and a half ago.

I see no reason to doubt that Panasonic Broadcast will be here after the economy stabilizes. I believe not only will we be here but we will be stronger than ever before. We are introducing some new products that are in direct response to what customers have asked for and it has been my experience that when we do that, customers respond.

All the best,

Jan
 
puredrifting said:
I can tell you that all of our wallets would be better off if Panasonic, Sony and Canon DIDN'T introduce new camcorders every 18 months. I like the old days when I had my Betacam for six years and it was bascially fine, I didn't lust after the latest and greatest every three months.

We are all shooting HD with cheap camcorders that make relatively great images. Why not leave it at that for a couple of more years, we can all pay off our credit cards, send our kids to college and make a living with what we have. ;-) Yeah, right, like that's going to happen...

Dan
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Those "cheap camcorders" are the reason why the manufacturers have shorter and shorter production cycles.
In times where you paid serious money for a camera, you expected it to hold up for a while, to get your return of invest.
That also ment companys could expect NO money from these clients for a couple of years.
With entering the happy consumer/prosumer world, it´s all about upgrades, revisions, new features, better this better that and along with this: intended limitations (Apple Syndrome).
So hold back enough features and keep putting them out in new models, making clients want or even need the new features and keeping them buying new cameras every two years...

But we´re all old enough to make up our own minds, for me this means, the original HVX still holds true.:beer:
 
Panasonic, Sony and Canon are already firmly established in the broadcast industry. I think the economic downturn may affect relative newcomers like RED with their "scarlet" camera more than people realize. It's just bad timing. The DVX and the HVX came out at a time of relative economic prosperity, when even teenagers could afford to splash a few thousand dollars to make their skateboarding youtube videos. In harsh times people (including professional filmmakers) have other priorities...ie: credit card debts, mortgage payments, food, etc. It won't matter if the scarlet can shoot 10K for $2000, people will just be too broke to buy it.
 
I hope that what you say isn't true EDV, but looking at my start page of the NY Times every morning, it sure does seem as if what you describe is happening. The new administration has inherited a big mess that will take them years to dig out of, the stock market seems to spiral downward, then inch back up to around 8,000 with every report and announcement. Unemployment seems to be through the roof. I haven't opened my investment statements in months because the losses are too depressing.

I think that we will pull out of this eventually, but I don't think things will ever be the way that they were before. I know that my HPX170 will last me a minimum of 3-4 years and I don't plan on any major purchases this year. We are living in unprecedented times. I hope that work keeps on coming for me and that my wife doesn't lose her job, there have been rumblings at her work.

Make what you already have work in this economy.

Dan
 
Spartacus said:
Those "cheap camcorders" are the reason why the manufacturers have shorter and shorter production cycles.
In times where you paid serious money for a camera, you expected it to hold up for a while, to get your return of invest.
That also ment companys could expect NO money from these clients for a couple of years.
With entering the happy consumer/prosumer world, it´s all about upgrades, revisions, new features, better this better that and along with this: intended limitations (Apple Syndrome).
So hold back enough features and keep putting them out in new models, making clients want or even need the new features and keeping them buying new cameras every two years...

But we´re all old enough to make up our own minds, for me this means, the original HVX still holds true.:beer:
Click to expand...

That is true, my BVWD600 was a $60,000.00 body back in the day. But I bought my DVX100A about four years ago and it is still making me money. No offense Jan, we all love the new camera, but at some point, you have to ask yourself, "I know I want a new camera, but do I NEED a new camera? Do my clients care and will they continue to pay me for it?"

I see myself shooting my 170 for at least 2-3 more years, possibly longer.

Dan
 
Noel-
"The day I see any RED rent for the same price as a 200 is the day I will eat my hat."

I hope your hat looks like this:
2455189123_7f9b0eed1e.jpg


I was talking about the future not right now... but I acully have rented the red for less then I've rented out my HVX...

Rental rates like DP rates will always be out of control of Logic and reason. (This is why producers make money, they know that deep down inside of us there's a part of us that would be willing to do this job for free. Cause we love it so much.)


interesting Blog that talks about them renting for the same price in the future

"Expect a RED to rent for about the price of an HVX when the backorders are filled."


and Red has
Jim from red telling customers:
"Invest only in things you know can make you money."


So at Sundance this year I talked with a Sony rep about why the F35 is $300,000 and the RED is $35,000...His answers where that if they priced the f35 cheaper it would't be taken seriously... and that a million people would have it and the Renters couldn't get there investment back...

Of wich I would have decked him if there wasn't a girl present...(and to make it worse he ruined my chances with that girl since I got so flusted from talking with him. Never wrestle with a pig)

but heres a post that suports his Idea
"was it a mistake to make 5000 red cameras"

Thank you Jan for responding and being part of a company that respects its custumers. That treats us not as children but as artists. (ok my coffees getting to me ...) and yes when I've talked to other companies they have called my ideas crazy... which is offensive since I am just a custumer asking for a better product.

Thank you Barry for putting the lay offs in perspective, I'd like to know what your freind in vegas recomends to do in this bussness enviroment. He had some great things to say about the busness.

I was wondering if on my reel the HVX/varicam shots should be pulled, just cause of lower resolution, lesser quality then Red. at this point I think my whole reel should be deleted... just the Artist always wanting to improve...

I was really happy to use the HVX last year with some great tallent. Danny Treo and Bill Engval. It was nice to use the Panasonic tools I'm used to with out a question of them being Impressive/Profetional enough for that tallent. I hope thats a growing trend.

http://vimeo.com/2707406

So yes I'm still proud of what my little HVX and I can achive.

CowboyDreams_05594.png


VP


Vincent Pascoe
www.vincentpascoe.com
Music Video Reel
 
Vincent Pascoe said:
Noel-

I was talking about the future not right now... but I acully have rented the red for less then I've rented out my HVX...
Click to expand...

Yeah it seems I had a big adjustment to make. Didnt realise people were mauling each other so much to get a rental. Now wheres my hat? Anyone got some Barbeque sauce?
 
Jan_Crittenden said:
We are introducing some new products that are in direct response to what customers have asked for and it has been my experience that when we do that, customers respond.

All the best,

Jan
Click to expand...


:) this is a very mean and upsetting thing to do to us once again!... go for it!
 
It's quite possible that, with the receession, the life span of the HVX will be increased.

Similar to computer game graphics that hit a plateau with the wii, where innovation and game play won over the Playstaion 3 graffics prossesing...

The HVX (with Lens adapters etc.) might be used for the next few years, as investment $ shrinks. I hope in the future when someone talks about the quality of a video they aren't just talking about the pixel count the're captureing, but how the creative choices that were used support the story the're trying to tell or mood the're creating.

I inspire most to be creating images not mearly capturing them.

VP

Vincent Pascoe
www.vincentpascoe.com
 
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