I shoot most of my projects with the HVX200a + Letus adapter. I am a big proponent of shooting 30p because I monitor my edits out to a CRT production montor and think 30p on a CRT looks WAY, WAY, better than 24p on a CRT...way way too stroby. Now the other day I took a project to a friends house and watched it on his HD LCD TV, and was somewhat disappointed. My 30p footage did not look anything like it does on my CRT, which I guess I should have expected, because I know the technical differences between CRT and LCD, but I didn't think it would be that apparent. Some of the shots where the camera was moving were ok, but the ones that were locked down looked more like what interlace video looks loke on a CRT, even though I was waching on a LCD...follow me? And I started thinking...hmmm, maybe this is whty everyone has been shoting 24p ll along. Now I have rented DVDs from the video store, and watched them on my dvd player to a 30 inch CRT TV (I know, seems out dated but I just love the way DVDs look on a CRT, they are sharper, better contrast), AND THEY DON'T LOOK ANYWHERE NEAR AS STROBY! What is the deal?, does it have something to do with the fact that they are shooting film at 24fps, but because of the telecine process, it smooths out some of that strobyness? Or if they are shooting 24p HD are their cameras like a Cine Alta so much more expensive that they just do 24p that much better? Is it a workflow thing? If I want to shoot in 24p, do I need to do something to the footage like add pulldown or something? or should I not be shooting and editing projects for what they look like on a CRT monitor, and start using a LCD monitor as the intended canvass for my projects? what are you guys doin? and what is your workflow?
24p workflow question...and opinions please
- Thread starter rarchcmu
- Start date
The strobe you've seen with 24p you've shot could be coming from a few different sources.
1) You could be moving the camera too quickly. The quicker the camera moves, the more strobe you'll see (until you get to a whip-pan, and then it doesn't matter
). Shooting 24p takes practice and skill. The Hollywood DPs and camera operators know how to do it, so you'll see it far less often in commercial films.
2) You could have a high shutter speed, which makes things look more staccato. Film standard is 180 degrees, or 1/48 if you're shooting 24p.
3) You could be shooting 24pA and editing as 29.97. This is not what you want to do. The pulldown pattern with 24pA will be more likely to produce a strobe unless you remove that pulldown and edit as 23.976.
1) You could be moving the camera too quickly. The quicker the camera moves, the more strobe you'll see (until you get to a whip-pan, and then it doesn't matter
). Shooting 24p takes practice and skill. The Hollywood DPs and camera operators know how to do it, so you'll see it far less often in commercial films.2) You could have a high shutter speed, which makes things look more staccato. Film standard is 180 degrees, or 1/48 if you're shooting 24p.
3) You could be shooting 24pA and editing as 29.97. This is not what you want to do. The pulldown pattern with 24pA will be more likely to produce a strobe unless you remove that pulldown and edit as 23.976.
DSWMEDIA
Member
24p is 24p. The tempo and amount of strobing should be technically identical, assuming matching shutter speed, pan/tilt speed, ect
I shoot 24pn.
If you shoot 1080i 24pa, and play that back on a crt without pulldown removed it can look very strobey because of the nature of the 2:3:3:2 pulldown...there is an extra frame in there.. always remove pulldown from 24pA material.
donno if that helps but that's how I do it.
I shoot 24pn.
If you shoot 1080i 24pa, and play that back on a crt without pulldown removed it can look very strobey because of the nature of the 2:3:3:2 pulldown...there is an extra frame in there.. always remove pulldown from 24pA material.
donno if that helps but that's how I do it.
I should be more specific, I was referring to 24pn mode on the HVX, not so much 24p or 24pa, or would there really be a difference (asthetically, not technically) And I'm really looking for people to tell their workflows, and if they know what the typical workflow for a 24p hollywood production is, that would be great. 1.) your acquisition format, 2.) your time line 30? 24? pulldown added?, then 3.) your delivery, DVD 24 or 30, 24 with pulldown added to 30?
1) Acquisition format -- doesn't really matter so much; it's all 24p. If you're shooting 720/24pN, you've got no worries. If you're shooting 1080 or 480, shoot 24pA, especially if you're using FCP (doesn't matter as much for the others).
2) You should edit 24p material on a 23.976 timeline regardless of what your output will be.
3) For DVD, you want progressive, 23.976.
There is no reason for you to touch 29.97 at any step unless you're mixing with 30p or 60i, or unless you have to export to tape for broadcast. In that case, you'd output from your 23.976 timeline as 29.97; almost any NLE or coding program will automatically insert a 2:3 pulldown.
2) You should edit 24p material on a 23.976 timeline regardless of what your output will be.
3) For DVD, you want progressive, 23.976.
There is no reason for you to touch 29.97 at any step unless you're mixing with 30p or 60i, or unless you have to export to tape for broadcast. In that case, you'd output from your 23.976 timeline as 29.97; almost any NLE or coding program will automatically insert a 2:3 pulldown.