Why not Lie about what camera your movie is shot on?

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Nik Manning

Well-known member
If I shoot a movie with a HMC150 or even cheaper a hv20 or something. They are both HD why can't I just lie and say it was shot with something like a f900 or something. Honestly it seems that I would have a better chance at selling a movie if it was shot on a f900. If I spend 50k on a movie why not say it was $500,000? I could easily say my producer fee was that. :)
This is what had me thinking
http://www.vimeo.com/1088550
 
If you're shooting a movie and the result looks good, nobody will care about which hardware has been used. Why lie about it? A good camera will not turn a crappy movie into a good movie.
 
Great question.


Two of my favorite movies [Open Water and 28 Days Later] were shot on standard definition MiniDV and they didn't lie about it.
The horribly bad Blair Witch Project was shot on some type of video [I don't know what] and they didn't lie about it all the while tricking me out of $7....:(


I think most people will see a difference between a F900 and a 150 on the big screen but if the story is good and the acting okay, I believe people won't care if it was a F900 or 150.
Sure there are equipment snobs and kool-aid drinkers who'll damn anything not shot on this camera or cut on this system or coming out of that studio - but..


I wouldn't care.


Indeed if you shoot a good movie on a 150 like a Open Water or a 28 Days think about how many indie and real cinema fans you'll gain...:thumbup:


I think there is a lot of support for QUAILTY film making that doesn't cost millions to produce.


My two cents.


Side note:
I bet that girl was pretty drunk by the end.....
 
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The reason you don't want to lie about what you've done is that if you're entering into a contractual obligation with someone under false pretenses, well, that might not play out all that well for you if things go south.

But in indiewood, lying is not necessarily the same thing as telling the truth "generally." For example, if someone asks you what your $50,000 film cost to make, are you obligated to say "$50,000"? No. You could just say "none of your business." But if you say "$500,000" then you're a liar, right? So indie producers learned to say "it cost under $250,000 to produce this film." Well, $50k is under $250,000 right? Now, the danger is: your film had better darn well LOOK like it cost $250,000 to make, or you'll end up looking like a fool. If you show up with a $50,000-looking film and tell people you spent $250,000 to do it, they'll think you're incompetent and wasteful! But if you can make a million-dollar-looking film for $50,000 and you tell people it cost under a million, then... you're on more-solid ground there.

Every distributor will ask you what you shot on. They're not asking what camera. They want to know if you shot 35mm, 16mm, or HD. They do not consider HDV to be the same as HD. They're not asking what format, really; what they're asking is: is this a "real" movie or some amateur weekends HDV thing? In other words, did anyone, at any point in the production, believe enough in the project to sink some money into it? If you shot film, then yes you must have had money, so somebody somewhere must have thought this was worthwhile enough to put up some money, right? But, on the other hand, if you shot on an HV20 or a TRV7 or something like that, then that tells them that nobody, anywhere, believed enough in the project to put up some dough, so why should they?

You may not like this, but that's the real answer. With thousands and thousands and thousands of films made every year, these folks need a way to sift through what they're going to give a chance to, and what they're not. And if someone believed enough in it to put up $300,000 to make it, then they'll probably watch it. And if nobody put up any cash at all, the odds of them even bothering to watch it plummet.

In other words, someone, somewhere, somehow, has to vouch for the project in order for them to give it the time of day. That can come from a trusted reviewer (get a two-thumbs-up review from Ebert & Roeper, and you'll probably get your film watched). That can come from winning a major festival (win "audience choice" or "best feature" at SXSW or Slamdance or Sundance or Tribeca or Telluride and yes, a distrib will watch your film). Get your film represented by a well-known producer's rep or sales company, and they'll be a lot more likely to watch it (because it's the rep's or sales company's reputation on the line if they bring in time-wasting dreck, right?) Or, in the least degree, have shot on 35mm film or otherwise show that there was some money behind this production, and you'll get watched.

But lying, flat-out lying to someone that you're trying to enter into a legally-binding contractual relationship with? Not a good idea. Fact of the matter is, you don't have to ever answer those questions ("what was it shot on" or "what was the budget") because that's really, when it gets all down to it, none of their business. Your response should be "do you like the film? then buy it." By asking you those questions, they're just trying to find out how desperate you are and how low of an offer they can make to you. Answering those questions helps them (and only them) and hurts you. Unless you have the "right answer" for the first question, which is "35mm film". :thumbsup:
 
My experience has been that I try to involve distribution, networks and anyone else that can help me cover my costs off the top. They will without a doubt visit you on set or location at one time during the production. Busted if you bullsh_t them. In the case of network television many are VERY specific about what you can and can't use in the acquisition stage of production right down to what percentage of footage can be included. Check out Discovery Channel's specs which are on line.
If you are making your film with your own money and no assistance from other industry players, first i take my hat off to you. Second I strongly suggest you don't make this a habit. It gets expensive as a hobby unless you hit it big at Sundance or Cannes or ...you get the picture.
 
Thank you everyone for your input. Barry you gave me the exact answer I was looking for. I was looking for the best way to say none of your business.

1. Shoot what you can but don't tell them what you shot on.
2. Give them a broad range for what it cost to shot the movie. $50k movie costs you under $250,000
3. Rent a f900 for a weekend shoot and have behind the scene footage on that day?

I don't recommend flat out lying but I recommend clever marketing. :)
 
ESTEBEVERDE said:
Why Lie about what camera your movie is shot on?
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Because it seems as if your movie is bigger if it was shot on a f900 versus a HVX200. They may feel that you put a lot into your movie based on your camera selection. If you are making a movie with a decent budget it would not make sense to shot on a HVX200. You would use something more expensive that may give you better results. So if you say we shot on a f900 they think ok maybe he did spend 500k on his film. But if you say you shot it on a HV20 they will think it was a cheap movie that you just threw together. This was the reason behind me saying just lie.
 
Nik Manning said:
Because it seems as if your movie is bigger if it was shot on a f900 versus a HVX200. They may feel that you put a lot into your movie based on your camera selection. If you are making a movie with a decent budget it would not make sense to shot on a HVX200. You would use something more expensive that may give you better results. So if you say we shot on a f900 they think ok maybe he did spend 500k on his film. But if you say you shot it on a HV20 they will think it was a cheap movie that you just threw together. This was the reason behind me saying just lie.
Click to expand...

That really is opening yourself up to a lawsuit. If you lie or mislead in order to get a contract... even if the lie isn't in writing or part of the contract... they can sue you. That doesn't mean they'll win... but can you afford to be sued? Because if they can afford to fund it, they can afford to sue over it.

Now, if your project makes them all kinds of money, I would doubt they would. But if it tanks and they lose money, and they find out you were using "lesser" gear then what they thought they were funding... you're hosed.
 
You should never lie. But I do understand why you ask. In regards to opening yourself up to lawsuits…that might be true. But when you get to the point of negotiating a contract then you must have done something right in order to attract that kind of attention. It’s at that point where the truth will set you free. Just adopt the military’s “don’t ask don’t tell” rule and you will be fine. Jm2c
 
Aside of being asked by fellow filmmakers, how often are you really asked?

Barry noted that distributors want to know if you shot on Film, HD, SD, etc. He's had more experience than I have, twenty fold, but I haven't had someone ever ask me what camera, or if it was HDV because HDV equals home movies. More often than not they want to know if the topic fits a market, and if the work is of professional quality. But I'm not pitching dramatic narrative (movies) for widespread release either.

If you really do want to spin it, and think it's an issue, then sure, rent a Varicam for a day for some key shots, and say "We shot some of it on the Varicam, and some on the HVX200". Let them figure out which footage is which, sure.
 
Watching that Vimeo clip proved something to me, once again: ALL those cameras look very similar and completely acceptable! All these cameras are fine and usable in almost every instance. The cinematographer and gaffer on that set made it look good, showing once again, it's the carpenter, not the tools.
 
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