Wages of Sin

Nathyn

Nathyn

Low Budget Ninja

You'll want to wear headphones if you don't have dedicated speakers. As some of you all know this was my second film shot on the original DVX100 which got some decent reviews as well as thoughtful criticisms. Based on this film I did a primer around here somewhere about what to do and what not to do for upcoming indie directors. I can't seem to find it now, but newbies can at least see the film here. This was down on a $3000 budget, $5000 if you include the TV ads we ran. It's actually ridiculous how much fun we had making this.

-Nate
 
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It was well-written.

Lots of work; that's what I kept thinking.

I can see why somebody picked this film up and released it on DVD.

It was honest work. I'm glad you posted it.

All you need now is a professional crew and you'll be alright :-)

Happy New Year, Nate.
 
Thank you and Happy New Year to you too. We actually put this on DVD ourselves. People wanted to pick it up but I wouldn't give it to them. The "Wages of Sin" you're seeing is a Horror Film by a company who hijacked my IMDB so now everyone think I made a horror film I didn't make. Echo Bridge ended up with the "Wages of Sin" horror film. My film is called "Chicago Cop" on IMDB to separate it.

The main people who wanted it wanted to sign me to a "no money" deal and I said no. I knew they could sale this flick for a nice profit overseas and I'd see nothing so I said give me $10,000 up front minimum or no deal. They were shocked. They said no and I said no. The second people turned it down because no names were in it and the third people wanted it but wanted it in HD. So far I've made a few hundred off of it over time, but you haven't heard the last of this film.

For Divinity we'll have a dedicated crew, camera person and boom op. My time will be spent directing and making sure the fights are tight. New school action is more rigorous so making sure I have all the shots will be crucial. I could get away with it on "Wages" because of the timing and cutting, but the new stuff has to be a mile a minute type stuff. Also we'll be getting professional actors. Wages was a mix, but I'm sure you could tell who the pros were, Tonee, CiCi, Felicia, Mike and the rest. You know who's who from the performances.

-Nate
 
Yeah, Nate, from what you've posted about the project here and there, I gathered you knew the weaknesses. I agree there were some professional performances and a few amateur performances. The technical aspects of the movie were mixed too.

The best part was the story. The story kept my attention. It wasn't mindless, as is typical of most "genre" movies. Genre used to mean: drama, comedy, thriller, etc. Now it seems that genre means exploitation movies. LOL

You should spiff up this movie and put it in your library when you have something commercial going. Wages is nothing to be ashamed of. You came off as an action hero of sorts. You almost made it to the big time status, except the director (I hope it wasn't you :-) held you back, because you should have had the close ups and the money shots -- you had almost none in this movie, and you were the star...

The movie should be re-edited. The fights should be fixed up. They look limp. All they need is sound effects and some special effects handling. The movie has potential.

You should have developed the love interest. There was a romantic thread; you downplayed it. There was a great story of redemption and genuine love there.

The movie was a poor man's epic too :-)

And the FCP sound loops have to go. You need a first rate sound track for this movie to fly.

Keep up the good work, Nate. You're almost there.
 
LOL. Garage band was our sound track, including the songs, if you listen to "Wages of Sin" it's all GB. Some of the music was actually original, my producer also does hip hop music so he did some of the tracks. We want Oscar Jasso to score it next time.

-Nate
 
Nate,

I tried to get through this I really did. The performances aren't great, but what made me turn it off is the Garageband loops of which I recognized all of them... and the absolutely horrid sound work.

A completely original score and a professional sound work would probably allow me to get into this a heck of a lot better.

The fight scenes have no impact.. sound sound sound... some parts of this aren't great.. and won't be fixed with sound.. but there is a lot that could be done to make it much more watchable.
 
hey man,

watched the opener. i'm going to watch this as soon as i get a free minute. thanks for putting up.
 
Loki said:
I tried to get through this I really did. The performances aren't great, but what made me turn it off is the Garageband loops of which I recognized all of them... and the absolutely horrid sound work.
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Well, at least you gave it the old college try.

Zak Forsman said:
hey man,

watched the opener. i'm going to watch this as soon as i get a free minute. thanks for putting up.
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Cool, I think you'll have a lot of fun with it.

-Nate
 
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Nate

I found the other post you left guiding me to check out the film.

Like Loki I tried to watch it but the sound issues and tunes I have heard before really got in the way for me. There were also some actors who don't seem to have any training and that was also hard for me.

I adore you, so I feel bad even saying any of that. The premise I like but I noticed inconsistencies from the start. I would rather tell you by email if you want to know those things. You don't need to know them though...seems you are aware from the other posts on the thread.

I look forward to seeing what the next one looks like because I bet each one will be better than the last! You strike me as the type who will keep growing as a filmmaker.

Michele
 
nate, you are the man. thanks for making this available. execution aside, the heart you put into this really shines through and I could sense it in every frame. looking forward to the next.
 
Hi Michele. It's all about money, time and planning. The time and planning are actually the most important. All of my main cast were professional actors, some of the supporting people did leave a lot to be desired. But my main thing was to show beginners what I had done (because I've been speaking with a lot of them recently) and to let them know people did want the film.

I wanted people to see this flick, especially the beginners. The danger in putting a piece like this up on a forum like this is everyone is a professional and at the same time filmmakers are very sensitive. That's why a bad critique will sometimes send a filmmaker over the deep end.

You, Michele, will definitely notice the bad acting, being DVX's acting goddess. Loki is obviously a hardcore pro who simply won't except it if it's not perfect in certain areas, which is definitely his right (But in all fairness I've seen worse make it to HBO and even theaters (check out the horrible sound on the "Blood, Guts, Bullets and Octane" DVD). Filmman, from what I know of him seems to be very story oriented, he ignored many of the bad points and seem to go for it from a story standpoint (many people like my stories, which are the strongest part of my film as my main God-given talent is writing). Zak and Adam will probably like it more than others (not that I know that to be the case). Penguin will probably like the humor in it. So each professional will look at everything based on the fact they know "how it's supposed to be done" or simply if it effects them. The fact is this simply what happens when you throw a feature like this together on such a low budget without a lot of time more than before but still not a lot.

Realistically, the majority of people don't know a garageband loop from a hole in the ground, but many people here a huge Mac Users. (And some of that music, by the way, is indeed original). On the next film we'll have many things that we didn't on this film. My composer is a music teacher who does composition for film. But the again on this film we had things we didn't have on the last (how about basic three point lighting).

The film got two out of three good reviews and what I really love is when people think I shot the film on $10,000 or $15,000 and I say no, we did it for $4500 (roughly). People thought my first film was at least several thousand dollars and we said "No, $800." That floored a reviewer and he interviewed me. You can still find the "Your Video Store Shelf" pod cast around somewhere.

I knew the budget and knew that we would be making a low-budget B movie. If you read up on it you'll see we promoted it that way. We knocked Hungryflix offline several times because of people downloading the Apple TV version of this film. Overall we did the best we could to make it fun and interesting (for the average person) and we accomplished that.

I knew we couldn't sale this film on great acting or big names. My focus was getting a decent image and the audio to a point where people were at least able to understand the dialogue (a big problem with indy films) and mainly the martial arts and action. Honestly, that's what would sale the film. I got what I wanted. Several people looked at the film and felt it was worth their time. My thought is if they bothered with it they felt they could sale it. AND THEY WOULD'VE So why should they sale it and I get nothing. Screw that.

This is what they would've done:

1. Thug out the cover. (Don't be shocked if the actual actors aren't even on the cover)

2. Call it an "Urban Film"

3. Sale a bunch and keep the cash. I've seen it happen before and it's happened to me before. I know the deal from the distribution standpoint.

As a low budget B-film this could've been gold (and can still be) but I want my cut of that gold for my work which isn't a lot to ask. Asking for $10,000 up front was more than reasonable. In fact with India being an emerging market having Riti in it would've been enough for India to at least look at it.

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Zak Forsman said:
nate, you are the man. thanks for making this available. execution aside, the heart you put into this really shines through and I could sense it in every frame. looking forward to the next.
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Thank you. Read what I said about you above, LOL.

-Nate
 
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Hey Nate,

First of all Congrats and Good Job on completing the feature. Most people don't even get that far! :) And overall it was entertaining at least to me. I'm sure you knew sooner or later I'd make it to this thread. :)

It was cool to "see you" in person. That's always the funny thing about life, people seem as though they don't really exist - when you talk with them through the Internet that is, but then you see them and it's like WOW a real living breathing person.

As for "Wages of Sin" I could give you a through review, I even wrote down about 7 major points that I saw, but I'm taking it from the thread that you didn't put it up for a review. Overall I wached the first 40 min and the last 10 min, I'm didn't have time to watch the whole thing, and don't know when I'll have the time to get the 30 min I lost.

I would say that I would have taken some money distribution wise, if they would have given you something domestically. (Mav Ent - I'm sure that's who you trid to sell to.) Yes they would have exploited the main parts - called it Urban etc, but if you could have gotten something - at least you could have upgraded to HDV and got a better mic and maybe a light kit.

I do think you need to rethink your actors. What everyone is saying is true, it's hard to see it until you've worked with better actors. When I was finishing "Bottom" I just knew all my actors expcept for 4 could really act. Then I got my new bunch for "Voices". Even small things, like reaction and holding their bodies a certain way to be in character was much different. I wanted to bring up this point, so that hopefully your next piece will be better. It's very difficult to find good actors - every actor "thinks" they are good, like every director "thinks" they are good.

Finally the money issue - My budgets have been slightly higher than yours, first movie $300; second $14,500; and third $28,000 (so far). But it's beyond money it's about having certain things in place and the knowledge of the basics.

I'm definately looking for the next feature, I'm hoping it will be great!
 
Thanks jls4, you're 100% right. Even working with the actors in this film the good stand out so far from the not so good. There were two people everyone loved one being Felicia. As far as Maverick goes, they were the ones who turned it down. There's a a glut in the urban market just like the horror market and sales have been dropping. So to sale an Urban film they too want a "name". In this kind of film they want a rapper or known black talent even if they aren't big. The two stars I had the choice in having would've probably got it sold an Urban Cop Drama (which it is) but like I said, the manager was not someone I wanted to deal with. I got a not so good feeling being in the room with him. Thank God person isn't managing the talent anymore.

But on a high note we are going HD with Divinity. Just when I thought I'd have to break out the old DVX100 our new DP has a Canon XH-A1 (just like we wanted) and all the trimmings. My goal is to stay from behind the camera unless I have to be there, I want to act, direct and choreograph. Right now our lighting is about 4500 watts between hers (2 1000 watt lights) and our (6 lights that equal about 2500).

We're definitely on track now but it took these films to get there. Wages of Sin still holds the honor of being the first indy film for Apple TV, and was featured on Hungryflix for several months. If I had to do it all again there's some things I would do differently, mainly in editing and the way we boomed some of the scenes. There is one actor I would move out but they aren't a main player. As for the sound, it wasn't the microphone, it was how we boomed some of the shots (and who boomed as some boomers were better than others). The mic is a pro unit.

One thing about this is I get to sale my own DVD. I used Createspace so I could sale a two disc set which has all the choreography and that stuff. Our distributor hated making good DVDs for some reason (cost?). I always do extras. No one knows this but The 4th Beast had an audio commentary that no one ever got to hear. The distributor didn't use it. Then in an article they claim their DVDs come with extras and the ones that don't are bootlegs. But the company is known for shipping barebones DVDs. The DVD they sent me wasn't even authored. It had four boxes, one had a video clip in it and you simply click the box. I sent them a fully authored DVD. (Those were the days when you could import from iDVD to DVD Studio Pro, stupid of Apple to disable this function).

I had a professional DVD the distributor could've simply replicated. They actually went through trouble to make a poor product and I will always hate that I let them have my art. I'm a business man. I understand profit = motivation but they could've done better. If I could do it from my home computer they could've made an effort. I may remake the film one day but I would still sale that one so people can see where I came from. The 4th Beast is still available from Netflix and pops up on eBay sometimes.

-Nate
 
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Nathyn said:
Loki is obviously a hardcore pro who simply won't except it if it's not perfect in certain areas
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Well.. I could have lied and said I liked it.. but I didn't, I gave you my honest feedback sir.

I await your next production.
 
You need to invest in some better sound effects for martial arts. they make or break fight scenes.
 
I have to agree with Zak, cudos, it's a huge undertaking!

My suggestions to help on this might be to tighten up some of the edits. For example, you have a sequence where you show a silver VW parking, the guys getting out, then they walk to the building, reach for the door handle, open the door, go through the doorway, walk into a room...etc. Way too much information, the story stops while we wait for all of this to happen.

There were some composition, background, and frame line issues that you might want to think about for the next one. I highly recommend a book by Bruce Block called The Visual Story. The Deep Space/Shallow Space section would be very beneficial.

Cheers!

Chris
 
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