Has P2 been completely murdered by KxS?

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Noble Robot said:
P2 is a wasteful format at 100mbps, and I wish it were full frame, and not tied to the PC Card format, but don'you Sony folks wish EX could be captured with CCDs, or there were a intraframe compression option?
Click to expand...


Actually, since there could not physically be a 1/2" CCD camera this size, I'm happy with the CMOS. And there IS the option to record intraframe 4;2:2 off the EX1. Yes, it costs more money. But it's possible and has been done. The HVX cannot, under any circumstances, ever record more than it's 1280x1080 4:2:2. The HPX, different story.
 
Green Hornet said:
Barry, I think you are missing the point.
Click to expand...
I didn't miss it at all; I was merely pointing out that what may seem like a no-brainer from one perspective doesn't necessarily translate into any actual observable trend in the market.

The point being that to shoot an 8 hour day..what is the cost versus quality per dollar? Using the KxS and EX1, the cost is lower for higher quality output, so why would anyone (other than corporations who have deep pockets) buy Panasonic over the EX1?
Click to expand...
And here I would say that perhaps you are missing the point. If long/cheap record times are your priority, why not look at AVC-HD instead? You can shoot almost twice as much footage per gigabyte, so you'd have half the cost of KxS (if cost is your primary concern).

I thought you (Barry Green) stated that you wanted an EX1?
Click to expand...
No, can't stand it. It's sharp, yes, but other than that I don't really care for the look of its footage or the ergonomics of it.

I think the point being made is, if you had $9,000 to buy a whole SYSTEM (camera, cards, chargers, batteries), You would be further along with the EX1, than with Panasonic and it's P2 card system.
Click to expand...
You start out $1300 cheaper with the Panasonic. Add about $400 for an 8GB card and you'd have what I've got, and tons of money left over. But again, if you want to record long hours of footage, neither of these is the ideal choice, the HMC150 would do that job for half the cost of the EX1 and store footage at half the cost of the KxS.

To me, it is a concern that I feel forced into buying something else, because Panasonic doesn't have a similar product.
Click to expand...
But they do. The 150 provides basically a comparable image to the 170 at half the cost of the EX1. Of course, if you want a 1/2" CMOS product then no, Panasonic doesn't have that.

but the price of P2 is such that to shoot an 8 hour day without off laoding would cost me as much as a new camera.
Click to expand...
Then clearly P2 is not the solution for you. Nor would SxS be. Perhaps you would be better served with AVC-HD or even KxS.

I would rather have a new camera than a bunch of P2 cards that lose money.
Every P2 card I bought cost me over a grand when I bought them. The same cards, I am having trouble getting $375 out of them.
Click to expand...
If you're using them as business assets, they should be *making* you money, not losing. If you're a personal user who's not putting the product to work, P2 probably isn't the media for you.

Sure one can say, you can use them to pay for themselves over time.
My point is, I don't want to buy a system to have it pay for ITSELF,

I want a system that will have something left over in the form of a profit that I can pay for things for ME. I don't want to be in the business of working to buy and replace camera systems, where the camera systems have a better life than I do. :laugh::laugh::laugh:
Click to expand...
I find these things pay themselves off in a month or two, and from then on it's all gravy.
 
And here I would say that perhaps you are missing the point. If long/cheap record times are your priority, why not look at AVC-HD instead?
Click to expand...

If long/cheap record times are a priority, why not shoot a DVD camcorder?
 
Barry_Green said:
Of course it can. Just plug it into an analog component capture solution.
Click to expand...

Never thought about that, I need a long form recording device for a turret mounted camera that will be ontop a vehicle in an underwater housing.

So I'd get the full 1980x1280 hd video that way in an analog form? I'm assuming this would be to a dvcpro hd tape deck like the 1200 or 1400?

Because it is analog would it look as good as a firewire digital capture device?

I guess I mean would 1980x1280 analog look better than 1280x1080 firewire digital capture?
 
ChipG said:
So I'd get the full 1980x1280 hd video that way in an analog form?
Click to expand...
Yes, but because it's analog it's not 1920x1080, because analog doesn't have pixels. But yes, it would be an analog version of the internal 1920x1080 processing.

I'm assuming this would be to a dvcpro hd tape deck like the 1200 or 1400?
Click to expand...
Well, you lose some of the point in doing that because the DVCPRO-HD tape deck is going to record it back to 1280x1080, just like the internal recorder would.
 
What sort of analog recording device would I use and would it visually look better than the 1280x1080 firewire capture?

Thanks!
 
Doesn't the Convergent XDR have analog component input? I thought it did. As to whether it'll actually look better, only testing will reveal that answer.
 
Barry_Green said:
Wasn't the original question about recording time per dollar?
Click to expand...



You have GOT to love that Barry Green!!!

Yes, the question was recording time per dollar, and Barry adressed that with the HMC150.

I can say that camera is probably the best price per dollar camera if you only had $3,500

If you have $8,000 or so, you can't overlook the FOOTAGE off of the EX1.

Barry is right about the ergonomics of the Sony sucking, and I personally LOVE the Panasonic cameras layouts, and menus and such, I just get dissapointed when the footage doesn't look like Discovery channel or a projected film in a theater. Out of the box, the panasonic on wide shots, looks terrible due to lack of RESOLUTION. THe EX1 looks amazing.

I can do a lot in post to good resolved footage, but I can not create resolution in post EVER.

I am only in the sub 10 grand category of disposable funds.

I could see myself with a 150, due to how inexpensive it is and light weight.

THe hvx200a, or HPX170 seem like a waste when an EX1 is cheaper, and resolves more if you are setting yourself up to be able to shoot an 8 hour day.


When I was a poor kid, one of my first cars was an Isuzu Imark convertible.
It was a no frills car, that wasn't THAT cool (although it did have a sliding top, and decent paint job), but that car got me 40 miles to a gallon, and I personally put the first 120,000 miles on the car, and sold it and bought it back with 150,000 miles and then drive it to 210,000 miles before I traded it in.

The point is, sometimes you hate the ergonomics of things but you can't overlook the final result of what it delivers.

I don't like sony, I always felt like Sony was like having a PC in an all mac workplace.

For me, the EX1 footage is easier to make what I want then the Panasonic sub 10 grand cameras can deliver.

I think Panasonic shoul dleave the footage at full raster 1920x1080, instead of reducing it back down to 1280x1080, then blowing it up on display.,

I think that final blow up on display is where it goes grainy.
 
Ooooo. Avc-Intra.
So gorgeous.


anyways.. Yeah if Panny got the message and lowered the prices of P2 cards, then Maybe i'd invest more in the format....but I can't help thinking in the back of my mind about that panasonic small form factor AVC-INTRA cam supposedly due for next year...I think my current supply of p2 cards is enough to hold me over.
 
mrjazz said:
No problem. Look at the attached ex1-grab. What do you think about it?

Because I don't need aids (not HIV), but high-quality footage. The artistic stuff is done in post.

The problem is that you believe that I'm doing silly talk, because you don't have a clue what I'm talking about, because you don't know much about technical stuff...

...and so you're getting personal all the time, because that's all what's left for you.
Click to expand...

My screen grabs from my EX1 never look this good. What program are you using to get them? Also, I have my camera's detail set to Off and rarely shoot progressive so that may be it too.
 
adamr316 said:
My screen grabs from my EX1 never look this good. What program are you using to get them? Also, I have my camera's detail set to Off and rarely shoot progressive so that may be it too.
Click to expand...
The grab would look even better, if I wouldn't had to compress it strongly to get unter the 390kb-limit of this forum. ;)
I'm using the QuickTime-player to get them: Export->MovieToPicture.
Perhaps I can tell you what's going wrong, if you show me one of yours. :)
 
mrjazz said:
The grab would look even better, if I wouldn't had to compress it strongly to get unter the 390kb-limit of this forum. ;)
I'm using the QuickTime-player to get them: Export->MovieToPicture.
Perhaps I can tell you what's going wrong, if you show me one of yours. :)
Click to expand...

I think what I'm doing wrong is using a PC ;-)

My screengrabs come from the Clip Browser software. I can't post attachments for some reason so here goes:

http://adamreuter.com/bagpiper.jpg

http://adamreuter.com/mattpless.jpg


I think my bagpiper closeup looks softer than your wide shot. Both were from 1080/24p sources (HQ mode)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top