organic- vs. video-look. What?
- Thread starter mrjazz
- Start date
Stevet
Veteran
He is Trolling
It wouldn't be the first time.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Coming from you SteveT? (Even ive never been so sarcastic that another user actually threatened physical violence!!! Only you managed that! 
For the record, I don't intend for my silly remarks to be taken too seriously then... thats british humour for you.
In actual fact, a forum topic like this is a bit like mild trolling... critisism of one camera, under the guise of a question, to a base of users for another camera... Thats why i critisised this thread and am right to do so, as its a valid opinion
So since this question relates to the hvx200/HPX are we going to see it posted in that sub forum or are we still playing this laughable game of casting me as a troll?
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=154572&page=6 Acoelho, its quite pathetic to try and suggest someone is a troll just because you got offended in a debate with them. Its quite obviously personal you chiming in like that, and its serious to suggest someone is a troll. Its also quite pathetic.
Trolling would be when someone posts this...
Oh wait that was you... But i didn't think you were trolling hehe
-
So once again, if Mr.Jazz wants a serious answer to this question he will post this topic in the hvx/hpx forum. OR leave it here if its just partisan fanboy criticism... I'll leave it at that
For the record, I don't intend for my silly remarks to be taken too seriously then... thats british humour for you.
In actual fact, a forum topic like this is a bit like mild trolling... critisism of one camera, under the guise of a question, to a base of users for another camera... Thats why i critisised this thread and am right to do so, as its a valid opinion
So since this question relates to the hvx200/HPX are we going to see it posted in that sub forum or are we still playing this laughable game of casting me as a troll?
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=154572&page=6 Acoelho, its quite pathetic to try and suggest someone is a troll just because you got offended in a debate with them. Its quite obviously personal you chiming in like that, and its serious to suggest someone is a troll. Its also quite pathetic.
Trolling would be when someone posts this...
Oh wait that was you...
But i didn't think you were trolling hehe-
So once again, if Mr.Jazz wants a serious answer to this question he will post this topic in the hvx/hpx forum. OR leave it here if its just partisan fanboy criticism... I'll leave it at that
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lawriejaffa
Veteran
Acoelho, that is trolling... try reading it yourself.
Here's some pics from a film of mine that show properties of the hvx i find attractive.
Standard Def Still from HVX
Its not that the EX cannot look cinematic obviously that is ridiculous because it can just like any camera. Forgotten is a good example as featured in the LossFest contest.
Here's some pics from a film of mine that show properties of the hvx i find attractive.
Standard Def Still from HVX
Its not that the EX cannot look cinematic obviously that is ridiculous because it can just like any camera. Forgotten is a good example as featured in the LossFest contest.
mrjazz
Active member
Interesting. Is that really the unprocessed output of the hvx? The first and especially the last one looks heavily graded.
The clipping on her cheek on the second looks a bit videoish to me. The first one has got some ca in the blurry background, which reminds me somehow of 8mm film.
I like the last one especially the left half of it. The edges remind me of vhs. It looks like film transferred to vhs, lent from a video rental store. I like that look, it's got something.
The clipping on her cheek on the second looks a bit videoish to me. The first one has got some ca in the blurry background, which reminds me somehow of 8mm film.
I like the last one especially the left half of it. The edges remind me of vhs. It looks like film transferred to vhs, lent from a video rental store.
I like that look, it's got something.
William_Robinette
Shallow Member
Everyone in this thread is acting like a child and no one has posted anything which moves the discussion in a forward motion. I suggest you stop as you have ALL already embarrassed yourselves enough.
mrjazz, what I think you really want to know (electronically what the EX-1 and HVX are doing to their image to get a "video" or "mojo" look) isn't something anyone here can answer. This is stuff baked into the ADC and DSP units of the respective cameras and I'm sure the people who do know (Jan from Panasonic, Juan from Reel-Streem, etc...) aren't going to be throwing out any secrets.
The unfortunate side effect of your question is that it brings up the need for people to justify the tools they use. If you cannot make beautiful images from either of these cameras you aren't much good as a DP (now preferring one over the other is a different thing, and you should know that arguing that point is well, pointless).
The best thing for you to do is shoot with them side by side and take into post and play. Only then will you know which tool makes your job easiest.
mrjazz, what I think you really want to know (electronically what the EX-1 and HVX are doing to their image to get a "video" or "mojo" look) isn't something anyone here can answer. This is stuff baked into the ADC and DSP units of the respective cameras and I'm sure the people who do know (Jan from Panasonic, Juan from Reel-Streem, etc...) aren't going to be throwing out any secrets.
The unfortunate side effect of your question is that it brings up the need for people to justify the tools they use. If you cannot make beautiful images from either of these cameras you aren't much good as a DP (now preferring one over the other is a different thing, and you should know that arguing that point is well, pointless).
The best thing for you to do is shoot with them side by side and take into post and play. Only then will you know which tool makes your job easiest.
mrjazz
Active member
I don't want to know it that exact. But I'm sure you could draw a gamma-tranfer-curve which would convert ex1 to hvx and vice-versa. That wouldn't be 100% perfect in terms of color-reproduction, but perhaps 95%.
I'm interested in seeing such a curve.
Did you try ex1s cine-gammas?
I guess a lot of people aren't able to use the ex1 properly, because they know neither how to use knee nor the usefulness of soft-clipping of the cine-gammas. Also they don't know that there's above-100IRE-information recorded which must be retrieved in post to exploit the whole dynamic range and actually see cines soft-clipping, and that the detail-feature is bad at all (if not using hd-crt-displays) and must be turned off to get the highest quality.
If you consider all that then you'll get almost photographic quality. I attached an example to this post (some quality is gone because of the file-size-limitations of this forum).
Attachments
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Stevet
Veteran
Those frame grabs look great lawriejaffa.
Hey, you remembered that... Man, that guy got heated over nothing, lol..unreal.
I've mentioned this before, but it's hard to offer your true thoughts in a few sentences on these forums. It'e easy to get the wrong idea about something (or somebody) on what you read.
Hey, you remembered that... Man, that guy got heated over nothing, lol..unreal.
I've mentioned this before, but it's hard to offer your true thoughts in a few sentences on these forums. It'e easy to get the wrong idea about something (or somebody) on what you read.
Lawriejaffa, those shots look great. This could be a great thread if everyone can keep posting screen grabs and share settings.
Im interested in seeing how far we can push our cameras (EX1 or HVX) to pick up the subtle drop off in whites before they blow out by using cine/knee settings. I think (Correct me if Im wrong) that is where digital always falls short compared to film.
Any insights, settings, screen grabs on this subject would be much appreciated.
Mr.Jazz. The Garden Shot, was that just standard cine1 setting or have you been adjusting the PP in some way? Would like to see the shot redone without the glare off the concrete. Just trees perhaps.
Thanks.
Im interested in seeing how far we can push our cameras (EX1 or HVX) to pick up the subtle drop off in whites before they blow out by using cine/knee settings. I think (Correct me if Im wrong) that is where digital always falls short compared to film.
Any insights, settings, screen grabs on this subject would be much appreciated.
Mr.Jazz. The Garden Shot, was that just standard cine1 setting or have you been adjusting the PP in some way? Would like to see the shot redone without the glare off the concrete. Just trees perhaps.
Thanks.
mrjazz
Active member
Just cine1. Matrix off. Detail off. gamma-level, black-gamma,... 0.
I will do that.
mrjazz
Active member
I attached an example to show the difference, if you care for above-100IRE-information or not. The first image shows a not-cared version. You can see some clipping = videoish. The second image shows retrieved above-100IRE-information by using FCPs RGB-Balance-plugin. You can see soft-clipping = filmish.
In this shot I used cine3, and all other settings zeroed.
In this shot I used cine3, and all other settings zeroed.
Attachments
lawriejaffa
Veteran
It's all good guys, someone should post some shots from Forgotten, theres some nice cinematic shots in that - particularly in the wide. That is where the EX can create some wow factor.
I was thinking the other day, that it would be an ideal cam for shooting a kind of neo spaghetti western.
Yep we've had our little squabble now, we can focus on pics and goodies. Ive been asked to help DoP for a very very short film that will be getting shot on an EX, so ill definately start a thread for that and the subsequent grading.
I was thinking the other day, that it would be an ideal cam for shooting a kind of neo spaghetti western.
Yep we've had our little squabble now, we can focus on pics and goodies. Ive been asked to help DoP for a very very short film that will be getting shot on an EX, so ill definately start a thread for that and the subsequent grading.
lawriejaffa
Veteran
Yeah hilarious wise ass? Well let's see you post something!
I didn't post pics to demonstrate sharpness, just pics from an old shoot of mine showing what i 'subjectively' like about the hvx. Making a smart ass comment is easy Fuhd, but try sticking your head in your bum and see how easy that is? *Breathes deep* PS - btw based on your
signature, if you are 17 then i'll forgive your comment... young people are known to say stupid things...
I've always softened my footage a little (just my preference). For other times a sharp look is preferred... (the oft cited wolf in the snow shot demonstrates that) but we're talking organic and cinematic here. For EX folk, this discussion might prove interesting in ways they can use colour profiles/ post whatever to acheive that - others will think thats not even necessary. Its all good...
Which EX films show off strong organic/cinematic renditions, lets look at TwilightFest for example? When I DoP a short on the EX I will be looking at creating a mojo vibe
I didn't post pics to demonstrate sharpness, just pics from an old shoot of mine showing what i 'subjectively' like about the hvx. Making a smart ass comment is easy Fuhd, but try sticking your head in your bum and see how easy that is? *Breathes deep* PS - btw based on your
signature, if you are 17 then i'll forgive your comment... young people are known to say stupid things...
I've always softened my footage a little (just my preference). For other times a sharp look is preferred... (the oft cited wolf in the snow shot demonstrates that) but we're talking organic and cinematic here. For EX folk, this discussion might prove interesting in ways they can use colour profiles/ post whatever to acheive that - others will think thats not even necessary. Its all good...
Which EX films show off strong organic/cinematic renditions, lets look at TwilightFest for example? When I DoP a short on the EX I will be looking at creating a mojo vibe
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come on man, we all made our peace already.lets keep this thread productive.
guys, thanks for posting shots and lets keep it rollling. I can see the diference in mrjazz's comparison shots. That FCP plugin info is much appreciated.
LawrieJaffa, look forward to seeing what you create with an EX sometime.
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