On a $500k to $700k budget - film or HD?

get a good DP, and shoot film. you WILL not regret it. plus vision3 500 is so fast that you can practically shoot available light, and this will save money on the grip package.
 
ChipG said:
My bad, 15 hour days infront of the computer is making me go crazy.
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Haha - I hear that. Makes me go crazy sometimes. As does the film/digital deal.

In a post somewhere back there was a note the action doesn't sell in SD? Let me just ask - how does that make sense? Distributers don't care what format the original film was on. Under that auspice, 28 Days Later wouldn't have been picked up and turned into a franchise. That is just one film of many that originated SD.

And there was another note that romance does well. Romance won't do well unless names are attached. Hollywood pops out more romantic dramas and comedies than you could imagine. It has to really be a unique story, or with good to excellent name talent to do well anywhere.

I agree fully with Timur. And should have mentioned it myself. Vision 3 is astounding. The stock will blow you away. We shot an entire film, light by natural light, at night. Only sodium vapor lights and we had zero problems. Footage looked great.
 
Mattykins said:
In a post somewhere back there was a note the action doesn't sell in SD? Let me just ask - how does that make sense? Distributers don't care what format the original film was on. Under that auspice, 28 Days Later wouldn't have been picked up and turned into a franchise. That is just one film of many that originated SD.
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I wonder if 28 Days Later would have done that well if it didn't have the large budget and the director didn't have connections. It's like the debate between "The Last Broadcast" and "Blair Witch" both came out with similar ideas around the same time. "Blair Witch" found the right producer who believed in the project, "The Last Broadcast" didn't. So Blair Witch went on to do $200 million while "The Last Broadcast" may have made $2 million from people who heard about the controversy and wanted to see the other movie.

Without getting into an argument with anyone, if anyone on this board had connections with the right agent or production company or studio, trust me you could shoot on a webcam and somebody may still distribute it. And don't have somebody famous like Nicole Kidman in it, then it's an automatic sell. Hollywood folks can do things we can't do because they know people - and most of us don't.
 
ChipG said:
Hey, a childhood friend of mine produced an action/thriller that was shot in a warehouse, it is called "UNKNOWN", Harvey Weinstein bought it from him.

I haven't seen the movie but I'll see Rick next weekned in LA, I can ask him some questions if you want to know more. I know he made out very well from it, I remember him telling me that netflix ordered 250,000 dvd's and they were all rented out in the first 7 days it came out.

You can do a lot with $700k for that type of movie.
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Just looked up the "Unknown" - heck yeah he sold it. It has like lots of famous people in it - Greg Kinner being probably the biggest! I'd love to hear how much it cost and how much he sold for if you can get that info.

But this is like what I was saying in the other post - you get the right names attached and it's like automatic sell. All you need to provide is good prod quality and do it as cheap as possible and you've got a successful indie movie. IFC also produced (aided in distribution?) the movie - at least that's what's on the trailer besides Weinstein
 
ChipG said:
This is not the case, I think a lot of film makers blame thier lack of success on not knowing the right people. If you make a good movie that has a market they will find you.

My sister's husband is the president of production at the largest movie studio in the world and has run other studio's including Demension & Millenium Films (Yes he green lighted Rodregez's films, all of them execpt El Mariachi while he was at Demension) I can assure you he is not going to distribute any films I shoot on a webcam or even an hvx like Cloverfield (yes, he green lighted that movie too).

Make a good movie and you will not have to worry about who you know, if the movie is really any good they will hunt you down and beg you for a deal. :beer:
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When I get my next movie done I'm going to send it to you - so you can show your sister's husband. I'm going to bookmark this thread to remind me. :)

I agree you need to make a good film - so no argument. but I've seen many "good films" not get "good deals" and that's what I'm taking about. Making a good movie is a given. Bad product no sell. But it seems like much of the indie world of filmmaking is about finding the outlet or marketing sceme to get people to "see your good movie."

I read an article a while back talking about Festivals. The article talked about how many people come to festivals and that most aren't going to go watch your movie. So it was trying to tell Indies that they need to spend time advertising for people to come see their movies at the festivals. If the agents, producers, distributors don't watch your movie at the festival, it doesn't matter if it's the next Titanic, no one will see it, so no one will buy it. So you can end up getting a bad deal or no deal. I'm not saying "I'm right" I'm saying this is what I've read.

But I agree that it starts with a good movie which comes from a talented team working on a great script.

As for blaming on lack of success - I don't blame anyone but myself for most of my problems. :beer: I waited too long between movies complaining about the difficulties and waiting for a "big break". And what really turned my life around was watching a particular actor/director create 4 really bad movies but get each one of them distibuted. What he did was get each person to come out and work for him for free. He sold quick and moved on to the next movie. After 4+ movies he had made about $120K or more. He used that and made a large movie (and had connections because of his smaller ones). That sold for a much better deal, got a HBO/Cinemax deal, then he landed a reoccuring character on a TV Show. He had a make it strategy. He didn't know anyone, but worked the system that he saw available to him. My current strategy for myself is built partially on his success.
 
ChipG said:
The biggest is Jim Caviezel (he played Jesus in Passion of the Christ) Jim's brother Tim is one of my best friends. We are all Childhood friends.
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He also playes in one of my favorite films "Count of Monte Cristo" - I love that film. It's Christian without being over the top.
 
ChipG said:
This is not the case, I think a lot of film makers blame thier lack of success on not knowing the right people. If you make a good movie that has a market they will find you.
....

Make a good movie and you will not have to worry about who you know, if the movie is really any good they will hunt you down and beg you for a deal. :beer:
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The problem is, if one is to 'make a good movie', were does one get that initial seed money to 'make a good movie'...

You are of course right about being 'connected familywise'... not being a free ticket...

On the other hand, if your in-law 'green lit' "Cloverfield", one wonders how he 'found' that film, if not via some grape vine of connections. A quick IMDB check suggest that both the writer and director have had previous credits, mostly from TV it seems, but still did not come from Bugtussel Nebraska...

I've not seen "Cloverfield"(2008) yet... but 5 minutes of "Blair Witch"(1999) made me motion sick. In the case of "Blair Witch" as I recall, it was one of the first examples of 'viral' marketing, and so, one could perhaps claim these people were from 'out of nirgendwo', since the writer/director pair had virtually no prior IMDB listed projects.

Was "Blair Witch" a 'good film'... well, I haven't seen it all the way through for the mentioned motion sickness effect... so for me, no this is not a 'good film'... it was a 'good marketing' project...

I'm looking at "9 Songs"(2004) at the moment... the film is 'controverial' because it has unsimulated sex... wow... parish the thought... but the director/writer did have a fairly substantial resume in IMDB before this film, and according to the various sources, it was shot on a DVX100... a piece of equipment that is accessible to most on this site, or the now HD versions of the same entry level of equipment.

At the moment I'm trying to evaluate if it is in fact a 'good' film. I can watch people have sex, and not go berzerko on 'oh, my god that should never be shown on a screen'... but in terms of film technique, I have absolutely no problem with the cinematography, lighting, audio, and the like. I especially like the fact that for the couple shots, for the most part they are locked down... concert shots are moving... sure, motivated moving and not too much... no motion sickness...

However, I don't think "9 Songs" would have ever been at Cannes, if it had not been done by someone with a resume, and connections. It would have been classed as porn, and pretty much not shown, nor not heard of outside of the filmmakers and their friend group.
 
There is a fundamental difference between a "good" film and a marketable film. "Good" is entirely subjective. For instance, I thought No Country for Old Men was terrible. I hated it. Everyone I saw it with hated it. But if I say it is a bad film here - I will get blasted because people think it was amazing.

28 Days later had 5 million to work with. The first Saw film had a million. Guess how Saw got made? Two kids went and pitched the film. Total unknown. Someone heard the idea and loved it. And it was made.

True, if no one watches the film - you won't get an offer. Fewer films sell at festivals than you might think. Films don't sell because you know someone - they sell because they can be sold elsewhere.

It's the film itself that makes it.
 
Mattykins said:
Films don't sell because you know someone - they sell because they can be sold elsewhere.

It's the film itself that makes it.
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I like that quote Matt.

As for "No Country for Old Men" - whatdoyoumean you hated it?! :) just kidding. I liked it, but not much more than I like a movie I see once and never see again. And that's what it was for me. I like "Mortal Kombat" better, while I admit the prod qual, acting, writing was better for NCFOM; I love to hate "Mortal Kombat" which has made me not only see the movie over 6 times, but also buy the film so I could show off the good and bad parts of it.

But I still follow the addage that you still have to get it to the right person. RRodriguez said that when he finished El Maricahi he went to Mexico to sell it, but no one wanted it. Then while he was looking for someone in LA, a friend of his told him to visit an Agent at a major agency that he knew. He did, the guy saw the movie and loved it. But what would have happened to RR if he didn't have the friend who had a friend? I think we would know who he is today, but it would have taken him longer.

So I agree 100% about what you are saying. I'm not arguing or going against that. I just believe having someone on the inside that you can pass your project to, helps. I mean I looked up the Agent and Agency of RR and guess what, they don't accept solicitations i.e. I can't send my next project to them. I tried to contact BET once because I know they were looking for movies to show at one time, "they don't accept submissions". So it's kinda like, if I do have a great movie, how can people see it? That opens up festivals, AFM, direct submission to distributors. But whose to say you'll get the best deal.

Recently a filmmaker I know of, don't know them, but know of them, got their movie in a festival. I spoke to the filmmaker about it after they had a seminar here in Atlanta. The filmmaker told me he couldn't believe really that he got in (a major festival), because so many other movies didn't make it that were better. While at the fest, there a major player in the industry who saw the movie and started to push the filmmaker. Before he knew it, the fimmaker had arrived. I've seen pieces of the movie, it's not that good - and really it's not that marketable i.e. he still hasn't sold the original movie (at least no more than any other idea). So - okay movie gets into Huge Festival - where Filmmaker meets major Hollywood Player who seeks him out - but movie still can't find distribution. But what it did do was open him up to new investors and new ways to sell ideas. And since he's sold a similar idea to make some money.

I'm not saying this to be bitter, or to be a butt-hole (I had one thread I was on and the guy got mad at me - didn't mean it the way I'm sure he took what I was saying), but I think you need:

A. A GREAT MOVIE
B. A GOOD MARKETING PLAN/IDEA
C. A Connection that can open doors for you as a filmmaker, either a good distribution deal (not just a deal) and plans for another project. this connection may be an agent, a friend of a friend, a festival, etc.
 
ChipG said:
It depends on the deal you make with the distributor, if they want it bad they will pay for the film print out of thier pocket, re edit's, sound, finnishing.

It is no doubt cheaper to send a digital master to all the distributors, it would limit you in the festival circut to a point although most do have digital projection systems, not the $500k ones but smaller, cheaper but still nice digital projectors. The festival route can be a very expensive way to campain for a distributor, why not just send them all digital copies of your movie?

If it is good enough for them to want to buy it, pay for a film print etc. and they want it seen at a couple festivals let them pay for that, they will.

I'm not saying one way is wright or wrong but one is cheaper if you decide to shoot on film. I have seen many people spend $30k+ campaigning thier films at festivals for nothing more than satisfying thier ego's so they can say my movie was at Sundance, Telluride etc., it didn't get picked up by a distributor but it played at many festivals.
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yea excellent point chip. again, great advice in this thread.

ChipG said:
Hey, a childhood friend of mine produced an action/thriller that was shot in a warehouse, it is called "UNKNOWN", Harvey Weinstein bought it from him.

I haven't seen the movie but I'll see Rick next weekned in LA, I can ask him some questions if you want to know more. I know he made out very well from it, I remember him telling me that netflix ordered 250,000 dvd's and they were all rented out in the first 7 days it came out.

You can do a lot with $700k for that type of movie.
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nice.....funny, my film is an action/thriller shot out of a warehouse :) i dont have netflix, but is it at blockbuster or anywhere?

i'd be interested to know the budget and how much he sold it for, also any details he can tell you in terms of how long the shoot was and his experience overall working on the film......and also....how did he get in contact with weinstein?

TimurCivan said:
get a good DP, and shoot film. you WILL not regret it. plus vision3 500 is so fast that you can practically shoot available light, and this will save money on the grip package.
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just curious Tim, do you have experience shooting on film? i checked out your reel and it looked pretty cool. do u have anything in there shot on film?
 
jls4 said:
As for blaming on lack of success - I don't blame anyone but myself for most of my problems. :beer: I waited too long between movies complaining about the difficulties and waiting for a "big break". And what really turned my life around was watching a particular actor/director create 4 really bad movies but get each one of them distibuted. What he did was get each person to come out and work for him for free. He sold quick and moved on to the next movie. After 4+ movies he had made about $120K or more. He used that and made a large movie (and had connections because of his smaller ones). That sold for a much better deal, got a HBO/Cinemax deal, then he landed a reoccuring character on a TV Show. He had a make it strategy. He didn't know anyone, but worked the system that he saw available to him. My current strategy for myself is built partially on his success.
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yo jls4, what's dude's name? is he somebody in/from Atlanta?
 
ChipG said:
Brad dosen't get involved with films under $30 million anymore (well Facing the Giants & Fireproof are exeptions because of the market) ($200 million is his largest) but please send me a copy when it's done, I know a lot of people in the business, these are people that deal in movies in the $1-$10 million range and have the time to sit down with you and talk about it.

I love this board and the people here, just came here to learn how to set my hvx up for a tv show I was making and got hooked, been here a year now. I'll do what ever I can to help you guys out but don't get to excited, you need a good product.
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Hey I like the way you're talking. :beer: Don't worry though, I'm not going to send you any bad movies. I do have a project that's starting to take shape that I think you/they would like. If you liked "Heat", "Man on Fire", "Miami Vice" then you'll like this idea. Now I just need to find the money to make it. :)
 
FilmBoy77 said:
yo jls4, what's dude's name? is he somebody in/from Atlanta?
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He's in the SouthEast - I'll leave it at that because I don't want to drop a name on a major message board. He came up about 2 to 3 years ago with a movie and most people didn't know who he was, but now he has some major stuff going on. I know a few people who work with him directly. He's done more in 3 years than most people I've seen do in 10 with connections. :beer:

Offtopic: There is a point where WE as filmmakers must remember politics, i.e. you can say "ABC" director is a hack and then find yourself working under them or getting money from them seven years down the line. And do you think that when somebody major like Oprah Winfrey Interviews you, they won't find your statements out on message boards like this? I've learned not to say too many bad things about an exact name because it can come back to haunt you. It is amazing how many people on this board say xyz sucks or this movie is just plain awful. I know in Atlanta, everybody knows everybody, even for those who want to talk about me, you'd better watch out cause I know lots of people. :) So in Hollywood I'm sure the circle gets small - don't wanna put myself on the outs early.

But if you really want to know, just PM me.
 
ChipG said:
It's the farthest thing from a free ticket, I have to work 10 times harder and be 10 times better than the other indies, in the long run I guess he's just looking out for my best interest, I'm ok with it, I never asked for a free ticket in my life (oh wait, do movie premiere tickets count? :)).
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Okay, I can see what you're saying Chip. You're so close to them that they expect 125% from you. So it's more difficult and you know you can't just go to them with anything - especially since you aspire to do filmmaking. Am I correct?

It makes since. It's like I did photography for my Sister-in-Laws wedding because my wife was in the wedding. (We both do photography/ videography) My wife for about 30 days just blasted my photos of her sister, which to me was some of my best work. Her sister loved the photos; but my wife, being a photographer too, felt I could have done more. If another photographer had done the wedding, she probably wouldn't have gotten upset. I've seen her praise people with less quality work. I think there's a mystery around people you don't know, vs those you do. I guess it's really awesome when you get to either be around someone who you just think is awesome and they never disappoint, or when people feel like you're that awesome person.

Even Jesus wasn't respected at home.
 
Mickey Munday said:
yea excellent point chip. again, great advice in this thread.
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Adam over in the Corrado thread is fourgoing the festival route and sent his movie directly to 5 or 10 distributors / sales agents.

He'll have a deal without going the festival route, no need to waste the money.
 
jls4 said:
My wife for about 30 days just blasted my photos of her sister, which to me was some of my best work. Her sister loved the photos; but my wife, being a photographer too, felt I could have done more.

Even Jesus wasn't respected at home.
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Yes, well, The Wife got the big idea to shoot weddings about 15 years ago, and we did that for about 12 on a steady basis... now she only books destination weddings, and the destination has to be somewhere interesting...

Anyway, I have about 12 years worth of 'you can't shoot your way out of a paper bag', yet, the couples have order 'my' shots, and in some cases, because of the 'danger' involved, usually involving hanging out a window, atop a tall ladder or over a balcony type thing...,it is actually 'my' shot that has become the competition winner... this may be more of a DoP vs. camera operator issue... why else would I hang myself in mid air to get a shot...

I also happen to have a steadier hand, well really posture... when shooting around 1/8 sec. or so... so I can get some available light shots... sure some are motion blurred... but heck if I shoot 10, and the couple likes 1... that's worth it to me... but I get chastized forever that I had 9 blurry shots...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
but heck if I shoot 10, and the couple likes 1... that's worth it to me... but I get chastized forever that I had 9 blurry shots...
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We shoot on average 1800 pictures at a wedding. We just delete the blurry ones. :)

I'll tell you something else, while I'm not saying my movie work is awesome. I get more flack from the Homebase than I do from other people. I mean I have a guy going to bat for me right now to raise $100K for my next movie, based on 3 scenes in my current movie that my wife doesn't care that much for. I've also had an up and coming PR person and a TV Producer comment on how well the scenes/movie was shot, yet the homebase is just like "it's okay". But I think it's about knowing potential. She knows my potential and won't let me get away with anything less. Problem is, when you only have so much light and the camera can't "see" anymore so you're a a half a stop dark, I mean com'n. I'm at my potential, but the equipment's not! :) LOL
 
FilmBoy77 said:
lol, i feel you. PM sent.
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You should come to the Atlanta Screenwriters Group tonight. I'm going. I went off on AtlantaFilmCommunity.org about 3 months ago. Basically being upset with the influx of shorts without many features. Well one of the guys who participated in "the longest post on their website", wrote a screenplay based on what I said in the thread. I said if you can only do shorts, why not do a movie with 3 interconnected shorts. So he did. They are going to read it tonight. So I'm going. :beer:
 
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