A-cam dII 'High Definition RAW Format Motion Picture Camera

The world monopoly in lossy bayer workflow managed to add the A-Cam via DNG to its business. The camera does not have hardware capable of cineform in camera but they will offer a compression application from raw to cineform compressed bayer so they can establish it as the defacto standard workflow for this new camera. DNG workflow was an easy target because it's rather slow but it can be even slower by adding this compression encoding/decoding cycle. The uncompressed advantage is lost in the compression/conversion. The cineform workflow adds at least $999 to the cost of course and is not exactly efficient in editing. According to cineform "maybe only 12-fps at 1080p with a laptop" and that's a single video track not a standard multitrack editing setup. But we enjoy the advantage of using cineform's format of choice:)
 
13th Judas said:
hype is an example of bad advertisement because of its unreliable facts and promise. it's not good in business. some companies were being put to court because what they advertised is not what the consumer gets. this kind of publicity is very unprofessional because it wastes people's time. hype equals lie. and i don't think i am willing to do business with such company.
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He he, and what about scam or vaporware?
 
I've found this explanation by Viktor Bjork from Ikonoskop at the official forum strangely funny:

"Regarding the 80GB memory cartridge:
I personally see these as cans of film. With each production you buy a couple of memory cartridges and treat them as a film negative. The content of each cartridge you copy over to other disks (perhaps a good raid) and start to edit and work on. The actual original footage is remaining on the card and are safely stored until there is no need to revert back to the originals."

So, the point here, if I've undestood it correctly, is that you want to use a digital camera (designed supposedly for low budget independent production) because anytime you start a new project you'll need to buy (at least) two 80gbs memory cartridges (at 500 € each one x 2 = 1.000 €) as a permanent and safe storage of your original footage... :huh:
 
Otis Grapsas said:
Did the actually release the pricing of the cartridge at 500 euro?
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It's the around price they are talkin' about but it's not official yet. They've promised to inform about the definitive price policy before the end of the year. I think it would be great news if they decided to rethink the actual price of 6.950€ for the A-Cam dII, with the fixed lens 2/3 Scarlett in the near horizon at 3.700$ the Ikonoskop looks expensive (althought my preference still goes to the swedish cam).
 
CMOS rolling shutter vs CCD global shutter, deep DOF vs shallow DOF, small aperture fixed lens vs large aperture and lens options, compressed vs uncompressed, small pixel size vs large pixel size. You can't compare the two cameras.
 
Btw, I don't think that 500 euro is possible at this time. These things are traded in USD and USD is very strong against EURO at this time. Also, there is no way a vendor specific memory card can be cheaper than the cheapest generic OEM card of similar capability and capacity. It could be 500 euro in December of 2009 perhaps. If they follow the trend in pricing the cards lower every month following the generic card pricing, that means any cards one gets will depreciate really fast so the investment in cards is constantly losing value. To those used to selling a camcorder after a year of use with a small loss, it will be a surprise.
 
There is also an interchangeble 2/3 Scarlet but no one knows yet what a full kit will cost but the brain is at $2,500. This Scarlet will compete against the A-Cam.
 
They have to lower the price of the A-cam after the last announcements by RED. I guess Uncompressed\Lossless RAW will also be an option for the Scarlet once fast-enough storage is available.
 
The CCD will still be a lot more sensitive due to larger pixels, able to caption motion better (fast pans especially vertical and with fast shutters), without lighting limitations (strobes etc), with accurate 3d tracking, post stabilization capability etc.

Does a Sony EX3 compete with a Sony F355 just because they are both 1/2"?

Will Sony have to reduce the price of their $150,000 2/3" F23 just because a CMOS camera with the same sensor size appeared (not to mention the higher resolution!)? The actual performance and the capabilities will still be miles ahead.
 
Yes there are some limitations to using cmos chips in certain conditions but can be avoided if planned correctly and not all chips are created equal so lets see how the new mysterium x sensor performs. Secondly, its too early to definitively conclude that the Acam will produce better pictures then Scarlet. We will have to wait and see and until we can do side-by-side comparison, its only speculation.
 
acoelho1 said:
Yes there are some limitations to using cmos chips in certain conditions but can be avoided if planned correctly and not all chips are created equal so lets see how the new mysterium x sensor performs. Secondly, its too early to definitively conclude that the Acam will produce better pictures then Scarlet. We will have to wait and see and until we can do side-by-side comparison, its only speculation.
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the A-cam already appears pretty noisy. and it may be aesthetically pleasing and grain-like, but nonetheless...
 
The dynamic range of the specific sensor is very good. I think the Acam samples show direct sensor output which is usually not very clean. All sensors require some non destructive processing in order to get optimal noise results. This processing has nothing to do with noise reduction filtering. I don't know what Acam actually implements in the version that produced the samples but it could be a very early implementation.

Also image quality is only a small part of a camera package which we sometimes forget. Workflow performance, dependability and stability, support of standard equipment, power and monitoring options, affordability of addons, etc and very important. If a side by side at 100% showed how the full package performs, all decisions would be done on a pixel peeping basis and all professionals would be using consumer cmos cameras.
 
A side-by-side comparison would include all those items you mentioned. I hope the A-cam does deliver, which will impact the market positively by pushing competitors and will most likely lead to more affordable options for us indie filmmakers.
 
acoelho1 said:
Yes there are some limitations to using cmos chips in certain conditions but can be avoided if planned correctly and not all chips are created equal so lets see how the new mysterium x sensor performs. Secondly, its too early to definitively conclude that the Acam will produce better pictures then Scarlet. We will have to wait and see and until we can do side-by-side comparison, its only speculation.
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You're right but the problem here is if you're interested in the purchase of any of these cameras it's difficult to postpone your buying decision until they're out in the market. if you want to get the A-cam at mid-2009 you have to place the pre-order right now because the waiting list is already long. If you prefer to pass momentarily over the A-cam and wait until the Scarlett is released to have any clear idea about how its performance is going to be you'll have to wait until the end of 2009 or the begining of 2010 at least (and all of this, of course, assuming that RED will release the cam within the stipulated time schedule and counting on the specs will remain as announced).

For me, the A-cam is still my first choice: I like the camera specs, the design and the Ikonoskop philosophy. The renders are beautiful but the Scarlett is still just vaporwave. Btw, It will be interesting to see camera Otis is working on but I think it will fall a bit far from my budget (and I'm looking for a more handy and small design).
 
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Yes, the shoulder mount is final because I need to stick to many standards. It could be more compact but it will loose to ability to power other peripherals and expand and there are balance. monitoring and media affordability issues. i have done a large researh on what is actually missing in this market and most of the responses were looking for a full shoulder mount product that supports the standards. If you take a small hand held camera and add a large resolution on camera monitor and its power source, the weight goes up and you have a heavy hand held camera which is not very practical. If you use a large lens that needs support, things get very complicated.

Btw, my camera will probably be more affordable than the a-cam, once you add everything you need to actually shoot in a production situation, such as a large monitor, power for peripherals, recording media etc. It's supposed to compete on that level, not on a basic list price.

Don't assume that the two cameras will have comparable image quality just because they can use the same sensor. There is lots of engineering in the middle.

I believe the A-cam will be a better deal for those looking for a very small package that will stay light.
 
Otis, when is your camera going to be released? I think I read that you're not announcing any delivery date until you know for certain, but I'm curious if you have a ballpark date. 2010? Sooner?
 
If things go according to plan, we will be able to deliver production quantities by late April 2009. I think we might even beat any A-cam orders made today so it can get quite interesting:). Ikonoskop mentioned april as the earliest for orders made two weeks ago I believe.
 
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