Looking for critical feedback on indy zombie movie

B

Budgieboots

Well-known member
Hello everybody!

I am a low budget student filmmaker and I recently completed a zombie movie I made with my friends.

Its called "Zombie Apocalypse", its 22 minutes long and its about three ordinary university students who are caught up in the chaos of a zombie apocalypse and the struggle to survive.

I'd sure appreciate it if you could give it a watch and provide some constructive criticism!

Thanks so much!

P.S. Its hosted on youtube so I had to divide it into 2 parts.

Here is part one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnBXO_3Jr78

Here is part two :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68LYN7M6rNo
 
A bit tired so can't give a detailed crit.

Honestly I expected it to be much worse. I thought "22 minute of some low budget zombies? Ugh...", but I got to the end of the first one and actually wanted to see the second half. I enjoyed it overall because I liked the characters. They're not just some 2d flat characters in a zombie movie.

It was a bit cliché of course. Obviously the point, but I'm just not an overall fan of zombie movies.

Some bad acting by minor roles, like that dude outside the house arguing with the girl before she dies.

Some of the effects were pretty well done.
 
Hey thanks for replying!

If you have time for a detailed crit later I can wait - if your too busy, no worries!

BTW I enjoyed your "Pick up the phone" video :P
 
Budgieboots said:
Hello everybody!

I am a low budget student filmmaker and I recently completed a zombie movie I made with my friends.
Click to expand...


I don't have the time right now to view the full length. I'll comment on a few items on the first few minutes.

In 'scriptwriting' there is the idea of capturing the audience, the Reader, with in the first 10 pages. Well, that's for s feature length script of 90-120 pages... for a short, the capture time is more on the order of first page, or first 2 pages...

In films, this corresponds to say, for the feature length, the first 10-15 minutes, and for shorts... something like the first 2-3 minutes.

Also as a note, the 'modern' style of editing is usually around 2-5 seconds per cut. A longer cut really needs to be analyzed to see if it needs to be 'that long', and moves the story forward.

At 22 minutes or so, and given the type of editing that I saw in the first 2-3 minutes, I think you could edit your film down quite abit, to keep momentum up. Action/horror do have timing issues. Sure, when we are following the soon to be horror mulch victim through the basement, the 'slow' time pacing, with the eminant expection of 'something happening', increases that anticipation. But on shots that don't really move the story forward, or up the anticipation level... the viewer has better opportunity to 'leave the story'...

So, for example, a fellow is hobbling down a hall, on crutches, he's late for handing in a term paper, ok, perhaps cut a few frames on his arrival... but then we see him hobble back down the hall, pause, toss his paper down in a bit of over acted disgust... I think the second half of that sequence, after the initial 'too late' cutaway to the cell phone (what universities don't have clocks in the halls any more... but I digress...), should be significantly abrievated, or cut completely.
(As a note, when I was in such a late status, back in the ancient days, I'd probably have tossed the paper under the door anyway...)

As a note, I usually watch these shorts 'with out sound', so, I'll not comment on that aspect of the film. However, if one does watch a short without sound, and the shots are uttlerly 'confusing'... or 'boring', then perhaps that's also a place where one can evaluate 'is this shot needed, or does it need to be this long'...

In that regard, the people at the children's play ground and the 'clown' made no sense at all...

If I have time, and the place to listen/watch more I'll do so...
 
Also if you do get a chance to watch more I'd really appreciate it - you've got a lot of very insightful things to say which I've never heard before regarding editing and pacing and I feel I could really benefit from hearing it :dankk2:
 
Thanks Erez!

BTW

I checked out your website and I notice it said:

"Despite the popular view, none of them was actually recoded with live musicians yet,"

Were you using that Edirol plugin for FL studio?

Regardless it sounds good! :2vrolijk_08:
 
Hi BudgieBoots,

I seldom get over to this part of dvxuser, but always enjoy doing reviews. Like others, my time is limited but here's some feedback on the first 5 minutes. Maybe later I'll continue the review:

Scene 1 - An interesting lead-in depicting human nature mixed with a touch of humor. And we can all relate to such vulnerability and anxiety.

Scene 2 - The close up of Kyle wasn't aligned towards Karen when he spoke to her at the playground (should be looking more to left over his shoulder). Ditto when Karen watches Kyle and the clown play, she looks too far to left. And Karen enters from the wrong side of the screen (should be right) when she picks up Kyle; here you've broken the 180 degree rule. On the next shot of Karen, she should be looking up toward the clown since he's tall and just stood up in the last shot. After the clown calls Karen a *****, the music should fade, not cut-out abruptly. Otherwise, nice music, foley and action.

Scene 3 - Mostly good, but rather than cutting medium - CU - medium - CU, consider making the second close-up a different angle or, better yet, a tight shot of something interesting in the room - maybe his study papers. The ambient room humm was nice but the sound transition into the next scene wasn't cut well; now this time the humm should cut quickly, not fade.

Scene 4 - Nice camera work with cutaways, framing and composition. And the actress did well with the timing of her lines on the phone call. However, avoid gratiuitous lines where the talent talks to herself saying lines like, "Things will be better tomorrow."

Scene 5 - Supposedly this is the morning of the second day yet the establishment shot of the bridge looks like identical lighting of the prior scenes. When Kyle ducks out of scene, don't immediately transition to him getting whacked within 1 second! Here's a prime opportunity to engage tension for the audience. Instead, have Karen call out for him a few times, then tease the audience with a few confusing sounds - wait until the audience is personally sucked into the drama before cutting to the action. Otherwise you are depriving them of the emotional attachment to your protagonists. The actors action/effects on the slide could use some work and improved sound effects. Have the actors move more during your edit transition points. Finally, fading the music was good in concept but it should be faded before transitioning to the next scene. Don't use a K cut with dramatic mood music into a serene follow-up scene.

Scene 6 - Great, on this scene you've used establishment shots, nice tension build-up, with good cuts during action shots! Nice foley music during the climatic bite shot, too, as well as good camera work (framing/composition) throughout the scene. Also, good job with the make-up on the chomping shot, especially the effect of the spurting blood. Unfortunately, yet again the music and action cut to the next scene are abrupt and disturbing.

Thanks for sharing - it's clear you've put a lot of effort in the film and are off to a good start.

Warm Regards, Michael
 
Thanks for taking the time to watch and write up such great input Michael!

Its highly appreciated! :D

But a quick question regarding modern editing practices, since I'm still a little unclear on a few things:

Largely, how and when to fade sound/music between scenes. Should each scene end with the audio fading out?

Also, I've seen films and television programs where sometimes you hear the audio from the next scene before it actually appears. I can't think of a specific example at the moment but I'm sure we have all encountered them. Anybody know why this is done?

P.S. Is there also some kind of definitive source or book on modern editing?
 
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Budgieboots said:
<clip>
Largely, how and when to fade sound/music between scenes. Should each scene end with the audio fading out?
Click to expand...

In essence, we use J and K cuts (audio before/after next scene), particularly when we are trying to tie scenes together. So it doesn't work when we have dramatic horror music carrying over into a tranquil scene, etc.

Budgieboots said:
Largely, how and when to fade sound/music between scenes. Should each scene end with the audio fading out?
Click to expand...

Generally yes, although sometimes we'll cut the music/foley abruptly. You can watch any movie, TV program, or even listen to a radio show to learn industry practices.

Budgieboots said:
P.S. Is there also some kind of definitive source or book on modern editing?
Click to expand...

Sure, there are lots of books. In editing genre, Steven Katz's "Film Directing, Shot by Shot" should be helpful.

Regards, Michael
 
Rehi BudgieBoots,

Okay, here's a continuation of my review.

Scene 6 - After the girl gets out of bed in her PJs and you move the camera outside her door, you can't suddenly show her being magically dressed - way too confusing. I realize getting dressed is sensitive, especially with young adults but there are ways to handle this. For instance you could simply reveal the clothing near the clock radio CU, etc. That would tie her to her wardrobe in the next shot. Also, when you do the CU of her door before it opens, the Rosary beads should not be swinging back and forth. That gives away the door was just opened before the camera rolled.

As she moves out of the bedroom in the suspense scene, consider raising your camera height so the audience is looking down on her (stand on a chair, etc). Here we want the audience to subjugate her into more of a victim/submissive position. Even without a chair, you shiould easily be able to hold the camera over your head and frame the shot. In fact, you should always consider varying the camera height:
position 1 = near feet,
position 2 = in hands below waist,
position 3 = tucked under your arm,
position 4= on shoulder,
position 5 = held over your head
After that, we use a chair, ladder, climb/steps, raise monopod, crane, etc.

So the shot of the body on the floor is a good position 1 shot.

By the way, your white balance is amiss in this scene - outside lighting is way too blue. If your key light is the sun coming from the windows, don't balance using an inside light. Notice how when the girl moves outside, the shot suddenly goes from blue to gold.

As she comes inside, you did a good job with the music and foleys.

When she whacks Kate with the frying pan and you cut to her lying on the floor, the shoot looks almost like a still picture. Have a bit of action somewhere in each shot, perhaps having Kate drop her head to the floor after getting whacked.

As you move the camera angle back to her going to the sink, try to find a better camera angle to eliminate the backlighting problem.

From an acting perspective, the shot with Paul in front of the house would benefit rehearsing the shot a few times. Try to have your talent talk and move naturally.

The lighting on the girl leaning on the truck tire has a consistency problem. The CU has the sun shining on her face but the shots before/after only have diffused light on her. By the way, typically we would have the vehicle move out of frame before cutting to the next scene.

Scene 7 - The lighting on the zombie garage scene is overly bright and casts unnecessary shadows from the talent. Along the same line, the actors in the car are obscured in darkness - ideally you want this lighting reversed (protagonist lighted, antagonist darkened). At a minimum, use something like a thin sheet, shower curtain, or a reflector to soften your hard lights.

It was a bit confusing when the girl looked out of the car and said "They're coming!" The camera cuts for a considerable amount of time to the zombies walking, but not until later did they walk through the door where the girl could actually see them. Perhaps she should have said something like, "Listen, I thought I heard something. Oh my God, I think they're coming!" This way you could also create some additional drama, perhaps the others initially in doubt.

This time you did a good job capitalizing on the zombies as they got closer and closer (much better timing/suspense than the earlier slide scene). One tip - on shots like this, take tons of B roll cutaways and liberally edit them in. The CU of the car tire was fine but you should have many more close-ups of the extras, talent expressions inside the car, etc. You want to get the audience engaged and rapid cuts are important on shots like this one. And for a bit of creative camera work (ala "Bourne Incident"), go with some handheld shaky shoots to induce a feeling of audience disorientation - just don't overdo it (even the new James Bond movie got a bit too heavy with handheld movement).

Scene 8 - The lighting is completely blown out - shut down the iris or use some neutral density, faster shutter, or turn down the gain.

Some of the lines worked well and seemed natural. But the repeated reference to "...but this isn't the movies" seemed to keep reminding us that this *IS* a movie, even more so if the actors keep reminding us of the fact that it isn't.

Okay, that's it for part one of your video.

Happy trails, Michael
 
Quick question though, do you have any tips on the technical aspect of sound editing - I'm guessing specifically how to blend in redubbed audio and get it to sound "right".

Or is it one of those trial and error things?

I was playing around with high pass, low pass, bass and volume controls - is there some other tool I should be using or some general rule I should follow?
 
Budgieboots said:
Quick question though, do you have any tips on the technical aspect of sound editing - I'm guessing specifically how to blend in redubbed audio and get it to sound "right".

Or is it one of those trial and error things?
Click to expand...

BudgieBoots,

Yeah, unfortunately this is often the sad truth - not a quick and dirty process if you really want to get it right. I just listened to a few minutes of Part II - much of it worked well, while some of the audio wan't quite realistic (noticeable proximity effect problems with microphone - actor distance, unnatural echo/reverb through soldier's mask, etc). There's not really any major shortcuts to getting good audio, a critical aspect of filmmaking. Of course, there are a few tricks such as cutaways to help sell a sound effect. And of course we should always record 30+ seconds of ambient sound just in case we need to do ADR in post (as a last resort - real time sink).

Multitrack editing can be helpful when mixing a handful of effects, but most low-end Indy's are okay mixing them a few tracks at a time.

Budgieboots said:
I was playing around with high pass, low pass, bass and volume controls - is there some other tool I should be using or some general rule I should follow?
Click to expand...

That's a good start. For instance, inside the moving car you'll have a lot of low frequency rumble that will sound better by cutting down that gain. And of course if there's offensive noises, we try to eliminate those before attempting to normalize, compress, etc.

For my speakers, it seemed you were still heavy on the low frequencies for some shots (rumble, etc).

Hopefully in the next few days I'll finish my review and give you some thoughts on the script, story, plot points, etc.

Regards, Michael
 
I think you could go further with this. A better script and better special effects. The make up effects were good but the entrails were indeed pork sausage. Get plastic or hard foam props so people can make contact without hurting one another and add the sound effects later.

I thought this was very cheesy and I luaghed through a lot of it (don't know if that's what you were going for but it was indeed funny at times) but I kept watching and wanted to watch more so you obviously had something. I would get together with some people an develop this more and go for a full length feature and sale it around the campus and maybe even try to get some distribution. You may not make anything but it would be cool to see your film on a shelf, but then again, you may get lucky. Shoot it when school is out and you can make a teen zombie flick. I'd keep those three actors and but they'll have to be directed better. They were pretty natural. But it's when they left being natural that it became more comedic. Also I loved the questionable clown. And the insane dude with the rocket launcher, yikes!

Technically the color was very faded, was that something you were going for? I liked the editing and the camera movements. The script could use improvements but I like the fact the characters know about zombies and I like the fact that the girl wanted to run and the guy was thinking "army base = guns". I liked that line "they have guns and stuff." That was funny.

What I like was this was a chase. I don't usually like chase movies but a zombie chase film could be good. To keep cost low and make it more tense I'd make all the main action happen in the school, like they drive there trying to use it as a fortress and maybe they get trapped in there and the zombies get in. Around every corner there may or may not be a zombie. As Paris would say, "That's hot."

-Nate
 
Sounds good Michael!

and Nate, you say the colours were faded, er this wasn't quite what I was going for haha - but for the footage used I largely didn't touch what the camera produced.

All I did was apply 6 contrast and 100 unsharp masking on top of everything.

Is there a better way to go about this?

for the record, a dvx100b was the camera used if that helps
 
Thanks for sharing this. I enjoyed parts of it and also thought the effects were "better than expected".

I think there were major errors made in the cinematography and definite over acting (what was with the clown bit? an homage to Heath Ledger? I'll pass...). I appreciate the genre, and applaud your efforts to make a student zombie film.

I think a little color grading on this film would have gone a long way.
I also think you could have made tighter edits, which would have probably shaved a good 5 minutes or more off the film as a whole.

Just some quick thoughts as I head to class!

Keep filming!! =)

Kyle
 
Hi again,

Okay here's my Part II feedback.

Scene 9 - Much better lighting (camera settings) inside the car. Parking in the shade also worked well, providing diffused light.

Scene 10 - Excellent visual effects of the rocket-thingie overhead, mixed with military radiocom audio and cool foley effect! Mixed audio/video effects really help establish drama to set the stage. I suggest that you don't hide these talents until 13 minutes in the film since this kind of drama can really help lock-in your audience to see more. I'm not suggesting you rewrite the film since this was the natural place to include this scene. Rather, earlier in the film you could tantalize/tease the audience with another overhead rocket shot in the city. Perhaps only one person and the audience sees it, others turn but miss the action. You get the idea - bait the audience with some suspense and misdirection (was that a zombie weapon?), while creating some excitement of upcoming cool effects.

OTOH, the explosions were way too loud for the talent not to have a greater response. Obviously the effects are in post but you need to tame the effects audio to match the reactions of the actors. For instance, you could use the action footage without the actors in the immediate scene. But you don't have this footage, you say? Ah, that's why you should be taking B roll footage on each shot, anticipating creative opportunities in post-editing.

The scene was 30 seconds, all done with one camera angle and it was clear that your lead protagonist Shawna was having a difficult time remembering her lines. Unless you have professional talent with lots of time on their hands, don't write long scripts requiring so much memorization. Unless you are doing Cinéma vérité sequences, save long sequences for the pros. Even more importantly, generally try to keep the camera moving about every 5 seconds (more or less), especially in an action film. On this scene, a typical sequence shots might be: establishment, medium, CU, medium OTS, reverse medium OTS, CU OTS, reverse CU OTS, medium, POV, along with cutaways (not necessarily in this sequence).

Scene 11 - the talent left the prior scene walking to the right but enters this scene walking to the right. Be sure to either storyboard or take notes to help avoid continuity problems. Incidentally as an aside, be aware we create most tension when the talent moves from the lower right of the frame to the upper left (opposite of the way we read).

Align the audio so that when the talent hears the shot, they crouch down (not simply when Shawna points toward the shooter). As it is, you have them crouching down 3-4 seconds after the gunshot.

When you cut to the zombie and military guy, the shot shifts to a daylight scene. On the prior shot, your talent said it was almost dark and seemed so to the audience.

Great job with the first gunshot - good recoil with the shooter, cool smoke, excellent zombie shot reaction, and well timed foley sound. To really sell the shooting, after the shot cut to side profile close-up of the zombie. Liberally apply blood on the zombie - even better rip a hole in his shirt where the gunshot hit him in the chest along with some fake flesh protruding out. Then on the side profile close-up, have the zombie twist to the right to reveal the massive wound to the camera.

When the normal person taps the military guy saying, "hello, I'm coming up from behind you..." her voice has too much reverb. We gather the military guy has reverb with his helmet/face-shield on, but the normal person should sound more normal. I really liked the POV shot as the military guy turned - again, great timing, recoil, gun smoke, etc. If you don't want to do another CU cutway with more blood on the normal guy, have the talent roll over with their back facing up. Consider adding some realism by having the talent convulse 1-2 seconds before going limp.

The next shot where the military guy discovers and shoots at our stars was awesome. Excellent effect, nice timing, action close-up of the shooter, etc. I especially liked the music mix and would like it to last a bit longer - you've got our emotions piqued so capitalize on the multi-sensory stimulus. I'm sure the effect of Karen getting wounded on her thigh wasn't easy to keep continuity in the next shot - on the next shot you tried to cutaway to avoid giving away her pants were still intact. Consider either having her get shot in the foot or leg (easier to hide and she can always grab it and tuck it in on her front side out of camera view) or perhaps do something to her jeans to keep continuity of her burn wound (maybe have her friend wrap it with a handkerchief, etc).

Scene 12 - Okay, I see your tie-in with "things will be better, tomorrow" tie-in through the movie so I'll retract my earlier critique. But as soon as they sit down inside, don't overuse the phase by immediately saying it again.

As they enter the building, you go from a medium shot to a wide shot - normally we do it the other way around to draw in the audience.

As mentioned earlier, use some diffusion to soften your hard lights. When they sit down inside, the double shadows on the wall give away your key and fill light.

After they wake up, you start to move the camera around to keep up with the action (especially the OTS and POVs). Great, but don't be bashful - keep the camera moving with many more cuts on the other shots, too. Again, you use nice effects, camera work, foley and music mix to sell Karen's zombie action. Great job showing the blood flowing from the wall (although it alternately flows/stops/flows from scene to scene) Yes, Nate's assertion that Eric's acting is a bit over the top is correct and I also agree it was certainly funny if that's your mission here.

With a bit of extra work, you could sell that link sausage as intestines but the obvious links have to go. Maybe wrap the sausage in cellophane that's filled with something like ketchup, using some shipping tape to hold it together, etc.

Your camera work on the last sequence is definitely the best - lots of cutways, cuts on action, close-ups and even an overhead shot. And ending with the cross-dissolve of the exhaust and Shawna "going to sleep" over the song accompaniment was quiet pognant.

----------

Overall, I thought your framing was good and composition acceptable with some room for growth. Your camera work was steady and as mentioned earlier, a bit of shaky camera work would add production value to your CU action sequences.

Your audio quality varied, sometimes very good while occasionally suffered due to proximity effect (mic too far from subject), unnatural voices not matching the scene, etc. Most of the music worked well - ditto on the foley effect.

I've already covered the lighting heavily on my scene by scene critique - generally could use some technical work.

The concept behind the story had potential although disjointed at times. I liked the twist with the clown although the opportunity to develop the character was abandoned. As far as plot development goes, the film was mostly expository focused on zombie conversion with little protagonist/antagonist action. Occasionally we were treated to a bit of humor and a modicum of mild irony. I would have liked to have seen more character development of some kind, leaving the audience with a message or lesson learned. Existentialism has its place, but perhaps best saved for movies with strengths elsewhere. Fortunately, the last shot sequence helped make up for the story shortcomings.

The acting was fine for this type of film. And while the talent has room for growth, certainly a talented Director, DP and Editor could raise the bar for the film so we shouldn't be too critical for casual actors. And again, the military guy and zombie shooting sequence had great potential with a few additional cutaways.

Generally, the special effects were head and shoulders above most shorts of this caliber - excellent work! The makeup was acceptable and most of the props worked well.

The continuity was a bit bumpy from several aspects already discussed - I'm sure you've learned much after producing this film.

Similarly, the editing was choppy but don't be too hard on yourself. Each time you produce a film you'll see noticeable improvement. And we previously discussed, you'll become a better director and DP as your editing skills improve.

Finally, I suggest you begin reading and carefully examining professional movie scripts (there are thousands available for free on the internet) as well as other top short films and a few up-and-coming works like yours. Doing so will help underscore both what works well and traps to avoid. Besides this forum, check out sites like TriggerStreet.com to both enjoy short films as well as the reviews; they also have an abundance of movie scripts. Along with reading a few top books, you'll find improving your script development will provide immense returns for your time investment.

Questions?

Happy Trails, Michael
 
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Thanks Michael!

I haven't got any questions, you've covered pretty much everything I needed to know in great detail!

Cheers!
 
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