Shooting a feature on a DVX100A

G

gabge13

Active member
I could use some advice. I have no clue how to go about buying any audio equipment. If I am going to be filming more than one person should I have four or more lavalier mics?
For the lavalier mics how much would it cost for a receiver and how does a receiver work does it record the audio onto a tape like the dvx100a?

What kind of boom mic should I get?

My budget is very small $200.

I was looking to rent, but I have no clue what to rent...
 
gabge13 said:
I could use some advice. I have no clue how to go about buying any audio equipment. If I am going to be filming more than one person should I have four or more lavalier mics?
For the lavalier mics how much would it cost for a receiver and how does a receiver work does it record the audio onto a tape like the dvx100a?

What kind of boom mic should I get?

My budget is very small $200.

I was looking to rent, but I have no clue what to rent...
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but the reality is a $200 total budget is completely unrealistic if you plan to purchase. If you're going to mic your talent with wireless lavs you will need a mic, a transmitter, and a receiver for each person. If you have 4 people to mic, you're looking at about $2000 right there as a bare minimum. The mic receivers would be fed to a mixer - another $500 at least - to mix the four channels down to 2 which would then go to either your camera audio inputs or a separate recorder - the wireless receivers themselves do not have record capability. If the scene blocking is such that you don't need the mobility and freedom from cables of a wireless you can save some money by using hard-wired lav mics - going that route will reduce the cost of the mics to about $200 .... each.

An excellent entry level boom mic that is mentioned often on this forum is the Oktava M012 hypercardioid but even the mic all by itself exceeds your total budget by about $50. Likewise does an entry level shotgun like the Rode NTG-2. And there's still the boom itself, shock-mount for the mic, and wind protection to consider.

Rental is the only viable option at your budget - even better, elicit the aid of a sound person who owns their own gear - if the script is good enough and you impress them as serious enough perhaps you can find someone who will do a bit of work pro-bono.
 
Ok. Well there aren't to many rent houses near San Antonio, Texas but if you could just give me some equipment names. I'll be posting up on craigslist to see if anyones interested in working on this project with me

So I need one boom mic. How many lav mics do I need for 4 people, would 1 work? Or would I really need 4? I really hate asking all this questions that are probably just obvious.

So I need to rent a mixer to record more than 2 audio sources?

If I did buy any audio equipment I'd buy it on craigslist or ebay so even then would it be $2000 still?
 
Been realistic about money, what about getting a Rode NTG-2+free Deluxe windshield ($249) and a shockmount ($50) (from B&H, or try to find a better deal on eBay), a paint's pole (about $10 + XLR cable, another $10), and script it accordingly, so a boom operator can practice and reach everyone on time? That's around $320, but can't go any lower i think.

With one camera, you will have to shoot from different angles anyway, so you can even cover some dialogs from one angle and some others from the other angles, just the actors needs to be consistent.
 
gabge13 said:
Ok. Well there aren't to many rent houses near San Antonio, Texas but if you could just give me some equipment names. I'll be posting up on craigslist to see if anyones interested in working on this project with me

So I need one boom mic. How many lav mics do I need for 4 people, would 1 work? Or would I really need 4? I really hate asking all this questions that are probably just obvious.

So I need to rent a mixer to record more than 2 audio sources?

If I did buy any audio equipment I'd buy it on craigslist or ebay so even then would it be $2000 still?
Click to expand...

A lav mic is just for the person wearing it, so you'll need one for each person in the scene who is speaking if you go the lav route. A mic on one character would hear speech from the other characters but the qound quality would not be up to par. If two people are making love, one mic might work.

Whether one boom mic would be adequate depends on the scene blocking. Even though one boom is the norm, some scenes could require two. Your choices as director will drive that. And remember, each boom needs someone who knows what they're doing to hold it and aim the mics. This is doubly true if you try to cover the scene with one boom, the mic's aim will have to be shifted as the dialog flows between characters. A boom mic only picks up well when it's aimed directly at the speaker's mouth. If we have two people talking, the mic has to be shifted from the first person to the other and back again as each say their lines. You can't just hang it over the middle of the group and get decent results.

Be extremely careful with equipment found on Craigs list or eBay. Know the seller! If it's a recognized shop there should be no problem but if it's a private seller it might be stolen, obsolete, in poor condition, or (in the case of some 700mHz wireless) soon to be illegal. It happens a lot - Caveat emptor!

Used can save some money but don't expect miracles. Professional audio gear holds its value. Take a look at the consignment pages on the Trew Audio or Coffey Sound websites to get an idea of the realistic market.

A mixer is a good idea regardless of the number of audio sources. If you're going to have more than two you definitely need one with as many inputs as you plan to have mics live at any one time. If you had one or two mics you could send them directly to your camera, one to each channel. But even with just one or two mics in use, a mixer gives you better control over levels, good limiters, high-pass filtering to help reduce wind and handling noise, etc. The mics go to the mixer, the mixer goes to the camera or sound recorder (or both). With wireless lavs, the lav goes to the transmitter, one on each talent, the transmitter sends to the receiver, one for each mic, the receiver goes to the mixer, the mixer goes to the camera. If you just have one or two wiress the receiver can go directly to the camera but again, keeping the mixer in the mix gives you more control.

FYI - 4-channel mixers tend to be pricey. The Sound Devices 442, for example, will set you back a cool 3 grand new, $2500 used. Again, renting is the way for you to go since it rents for about $35 a day with substantial savings if you rent over a weekend or for a week at a time, etc.

By the way, the $2000 figure for wireless was based on 4 Sennheiser G2 kits, just about the mnimum you should consider. There are cheaper units on the market but you get what you pay for and the G2 would be considered entry level professional.

I'm sure there are professional rental houses in San Antonio - it's not exactly a media backwater. Call up the San Antonio Film Commission and ask for their referral list.
 
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A feature that has $200 budget for audio is doomed from the beginning.
All the time and talent involved with even the most cheapest but ingenious feature will be doomed without good audio. Buy some books and don't rush with your feature or you will not make another. Buy that "Guerilla Film Makers Movie Blueprint" and "how to read a movie" and buy that "sound for film and television" DVD then pre produce your feature to see if anyone will be interested or want to invest their time or money into it if not it's not worth making it. Don't let yourself and everyone else down rushing it.

Rental list:
Sennheiser EW100 G2 for the cheapest wireless
Sound Devices, SQN, or similar four channel mixer
A boom pole with wind protection (Rycote) with a shotgun for outdoors and a hypercardioid for indoors

But please invest that money into knowhow and writing your project as this would give you much better results.

T
 
Well, you did post in the audio section. Might be helpfull to read the sticky's at the top of the forum. Perhaps that could enlighten you to what you may need to look for.
 
Actually one could get alright sound with second hand wired law and boomed furry Rode VideoMic too but one must get really creative with scene planning and blocking not showing too many heads in the same shot, no wide shots with mouth sync for more than one character at the time etc etc...
... it may go something like that: Character One talks, then the another, then medium shot from three characters with one character with his/her back to the cam. (Commas separate the shots)
...
If you really must shoot before you are ready for real film making.


Maybe offer your help as the lowest member of a film crew without a fee (but for food) in some real production, you will learn a ton if you keep your mind open.

T
 
Toenis said:
A feature that has $200 budget for audio is doomed from the beginning.
All the time and talent involved with even the most cheapest but ingenious feature will be doomed without good audio. Buy some books and don't rush with your feature or you will not make another. Buy that "Guerilla Film Makers Movie Blueprint" and "how to read a movie" and buy that "sound for film and television" DVD then pre produce your feature to see if anyone will be interested or want to invest their time or money into it if not it's not worth making it. Don't let yourself and everyone else down rushing it.

Rental list:
Sennheiser EW100 G2 for the cheapest wireless
Sound Devices, SQN, or similar four channel mixer
A boom pole with wind protection (Rycote) with a shotgun for outdoors and a hypercardioid for indoors

But please invest that money into knowhow and writing your project as this would give you much better results.

T
Click to expand...

Right you are, Toenis! For him to take that $200 budget and invest in a few decent books about audio would truly be the most effective use of his capital at this point. Holman's "Sound for Digital Video", Rose's two books "Producing Great Sound..." and "Audio Postproduction ...", and S Den Miles "Location Audio Simplfied" would total up to about 3/4 of that figure and would be the best pieces of gear he could buy right now.
 
Well I'll see what productions I can find around town. I could really learn a lot about audio from being on the set with someone who knows what their doing.

This is going to be a short maybe 10 minutes long so it's nothing too serious I'm just trying to test myself and see what I can do.

I'm saving up for a cinemek 35 so I don't have much money to spare, but I should be able to buy 2,000 worth of audio equipment by next summer.

I do realize that audio is one of the most important factors when it comes to making a great film. I compare indie films to studio movies and that's the first thing I can differentiate off the bat.

I won't be able to afford a mixer anytime soon, I can't really afford to just drop 2000 on one thing. I'll have to get on set of a major production, because even if I rented a mixer I have no idea how to use it...
 
gabge13 said:
Well I'll see what productions I can find around town. I could really learn a lot about audio from being on the set with someone who knows what their doing.
...
I won't be able to afford a mixer anytime soon, I can't really afford to just drop 2000 on one thing. I'll have to get on set of a major production, because even if I rented a mixer I have no idea how to use it...
Click to expand...

And that's why some "book larn'in" would be a very good application of some of your current working budget. Miles "Location Audio..." book tells you exactly how each piece of the hardware fits into the puzzle, how to set it up, and how to use it, from how to position a mic to how to hold a boom to how to coil a cable (yes, there is a right way and a wrong way to coil it up after a shoot).
 
Steve House said:
A lav mic is just for the person wearing it, so you'll need one for each person in the scene who is speaking if you go the lav route. A mic on one character would hear speech from the other characters but the qound quality would not be up to par. If two people are making love, one mic might work.

----SNIP--

I'm sure there are professional rental houses in San Antonio - it's not exactly a media backwater. Call up the San Antonio Film Commission and ask for their referral list.
Click to expand...

Steve, there's a place in Heaven for you for providing such complete information.

To Gabge: If I may, this might help....http://home.comcast.net/~tyreeford/AudioBootcamp.html

Regards,

Ty Ford
 
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