Pretend I'm stupid - why is this RED announcement so huge?

J

jdv

Well-known member
I'm an indie film maker. I'd like to have a cam that delivers 35mm panavision picture quality that can be edited on my PC.

So my dumb question is this: Which one of those camera set-ups will deliver that quality?

What would the approx price be and when - honestly - could I expect to be able to buy one?

Thanks to all -

john
 
Which configeration though? Looking at all of that blasts my tiny mind into dust...

john
 
No answers can possibly be given, based on the information we have so far. And understanding that the information we have so far is "completely subject to change", it's way early to even begin speculating.

For 35mm Panavision quality, a Red One does a comparable job and you'll spend around $30,000 including some glass. A Scarlet with a full-size sensor may do as good a job, or potentially even better seeing as it's a 5K Mysterium X (at least that's what the announcements seem to be implying, is that it might take better-looking pictures than a Red One.)

It might shave as much as $10k off that $30,000 price. If you want to get in the 35mm ballpark you would probably want to be looking at the 5K S-35 Mysterium X unit, which has a body-only price of $7,000. But you'll need the same monitors, lenses, lights, support hardware, etc. You can rent lenses, but then you're talking about a different business model.

In short, it's fascinating to see the direction the Red team is headed in, and quite encouraging. But until it's a lot closer to release date, and the Red team commits to keeping the specs they've outlayed, there's not much reason to get too worked up about what it will or won't do and what it will or won't cost. More info is definitely needed.
 
What's your budget ? Red can be very pricey to set up.

There is the pending Scarlet though; this may an alternative.

-

It goes back to this:

You want 35mm Quality (We're close, but not there yet) but does it matter ? When films like 28 Days Later and Open Water are being shot on crap cameras but finding theatrical success ....

well you get the picture.

What's your budget ?
 
Money-wise, I'm thinking $10 K. Already own a JVC100/XL-1.

i like the quality of the JVC for the money, esp when considering the time when purchased (almost 3 years ago), but I really want to have that 35mm dop/resolution.

For body, 3 primes, view finder, and data storage - IE - the bare minimum - what would it cost?

Barry, in terms of availability, what do you think we should expect?

john
 
Way, way too early to say. If you want 35mm DOF and resolution, count on spending $15k to have the actual package that you want to shoot with (i.e., not some cobbled-together, limping-along, hampered package, but a reasonable basic package). Then you'll have to get glass. Red's 18-85 lens is $10,000 by itself. You could cheap out and use Nikon/Canon glass instead of cinema, which would save some coin but will not provide the same shooting experience.

We have a good six months to go before even starting to talk about what a reasonable/realistic delivery estimate will be. Red One proved to be way, way slower in delivering than anyone expected. They've gone through their growing pains, perhaps they will deliver these new units right on time, or perhaps they'll be months late again. It is just extremely too early to even get worried about.
 
So, for you Barry, this is exciting news, but nothing that should keep people from moving forward w/ other camera purchases? The Mark II is an interesting little camera, and I thought that Scarlet was going to be more along those lines...

RED seems to have a bad rep for delivery of the RED ONE - but is that still the case? In other words, if I wanted to buy one now, would it be at my house in a couple of weeks, or much longer?

Can't wait three years to put off up-grading.

john
 
It's fascinating news, and I'll start putting money aside for a future purchase obviously. But if you have a business purpose right now and can be making money right now, why on earth would you wait 9 months for something that may be better? Why not get today's product, get out there and put it to work, and make enough money to pay it off? Where is the possible benefit in waiting? When the Scarlet does finally come out, you could have made more than enough with your HPX170 or EX1 or whatever to pay for the Scarlet in full. If, mind you, your clients would pay more for (or you'd get new clients by having) a Scarlet or Epic shoot your production. Some will, some won't.

Now, if you're talking about a hobbyist or someone who is not planning on being in business at all and is just buying something to play around with, and you're RICH, then sure, wait for the Scarlet and get a hopefully fabulous product that will be amazing. But if you're not rich, what are you doing looking at $10,000 to $20,000 of gear for anyway?

Kholi's been frustrated with being dissatisfied with the image from his HPX170. But he also said it's fully paid off already, after only a few weeks. What kind of coin will he pull in over the next 9 months? Probably more than enough to buy a Scarlet outright, while still keeping his 170. Another guy on the boards told me that he'd just landed a job that would pay his 170 off twice over, with that one job. So am I amped about a Scarlet? Sure! But I'm also going to shoot my next training DVD in the next few weeks, and I'll do so on my new HPX170. There's no way I'd put it off for nine months just so I could shoot it on a Scarlet, that just makes no sense.

if I wanted to buy one now, would it be at my house in a couple of weeks, or much longer?
Click to expand...
According to the delivery schedule FAQ post, the Red One is officially out of backorder status and they are now shipping new orders. Some of the accessories and support equipment is also available for immediate delivery, other items are backordered.
 
Barry_Green said:
It's fascinating news, and I'll start putting money aside for a future purchase obviously. But if you have a business purpose right now and can be making money right now, why on earth would you wait 9 months for something that may be better? Why not get today's product, get out there and put it to work, and make enough money to pay it off? Where is the possible benefit in waiting? When the Scarlet does finally come out, you could have made more than enough with your HPX170 or EX1 or whatever to pay for the Scarlet in full. If, mind you, your clients would pay more for (or you'd get new clients by having) a Scarlet or Epic shoot your production. Some will, some won't.

Now, if you're talking about a hobbyist or someone who is not planning on being in business at all and is just buying something to play around with, and you're RICH, then sure, wait for the Scarlet and get a hopefully fabulous product that will be amazing. But if you're not rich, what are you doing looking at $10,000 to $20,000 of gear for anyway?

Kholi's been frustrated with being dissatisfied with the image from his HPX170. But he also said it's fully paid off already, after only a few weeks. What kind of coin will he pull in over the next 9 months? Probably more than enough to buy a Scarlet outright, while still keeping his 170. Another guy on the boards told me that he'd just landed a job that would pay his 170 off twice over, with that one job. So am I amped about a Scarlet? Sure! But I'm also going to shoot my next training DVD in the next few weeks, and I'll do so on my new HPX170. There's no way I'd put it off for nine months just so I could shoot it on a Scarlet, that just makes no sense.


According to the delivery schedule FAQ post, the Red One is officially out of backorder status and they are now shipping new orders. Some of the accessories and support equipment is also available for immediate delivery, other items are backordered.
Click to expand...

Best listen to the man. It's true, I'm not so happy with my HPX170... but everyone else is. And that's why I'm not crazy enough to go and sell it until the day that they announce "SCARLET IS SHIPPING". And not a week, day, or hour sooner.

Money to be made now.

Anyway, continue!
 
Barry_Green said:
Now, if you're talking about a hobbyist or someone who is not planning on being in business at all and is just buying something to play around with, and you're RICH, then sure, wait for the Scarlet and get a hopefully fabulous product that will be amazing. But if you're not rich, what are you doing looking at $10,000 to $20,000 of gear for anyway?
Click to expand...


How can I be as wise as you ?
 
Thanks a lot guys!

Yeah, I learned a long time ago that when you ignore Barry it's pretty much the same thing as wearing a dunce hat to school - it's just plain stupid.

john
 
One more question I promise - how would you guys compare the panny HPX500 to basic Scarlet? Same ballpark, or no where near?

B & H has them listed - with 4 P2 cards/lens for $13,500. Which seems to be about the best deal out there for a HD cam that can make theatrical film quality results....

Please smack me if I am wrong about this.

john
 
Just to touch on the original question, just for fun since Barry covered the subject in brilliant way:

Cause it announced EVERYTHING we asked for is being made.

:)
 
jdv said:
One more question I promise - how would you guys compare the panny HPX500 to basic Scarlet? Same ballpark, or no where near?

B & H has them listed - with 4 P2 cards/lens for $13,500. Which seems to be about the best deal out there for a HD cam that can make theatrical film quality results....

Please smack me if I am wrong about this.

john
Click to expand...

Scarlet or not, there's no way I would buy an HPX500 at a time like this. I personally think you get more mileage out of a top tier 35mm Adapter, Excellent Primes and an HVX200A. An HPX500 isn't enough of a jump in quality for a feature unless you're using the HD-SDI out to record too on set... and even then it's probably not worth it.

Why not just rent a RED ONE for your feature? The rates are already dropping for full camera packages with glass and you can get great deals from rental houses that have many. There's no real sense in purchasing right now. At least that's my take on it.
 
Thanks - I hate renting. I'm a run-&-gun shooter and I really like to get to know the camera as best I can. Tough to do when renting. A friend is working for someone who just got a RED One, so hopefully I'll get to play with that.

So the 500 just isn't it huh? Guessing the lack of sensor rez is the main reason.

john
 
hpx-170 + SGblade no flip (not now but January shipping looks promising) = ~$7,000

Add a RedRock FF and the Deluxe grip kit... all you'll be missing is the monitor and the glass and you could get two Nikon 2.8f zoom for almost the $10,000 total... plus tax and shipping not too far off... so you'll need the monitor... anyway, you run the numbers, but that's the best bet right now... or like Kholi would probably do just get the 200a and tape the focus ring

you are close with $10k but not quite there. add a few thousand and you are talking!


Oh, and the beauty of all of this is that you can later us all of the gear with the S35 Scarlet... only will have to sell the adapter... or get the 2/3" Scarlet, you keep the frame-rates and get most of the DNR... but still have to deal with the adapter... so many questions
 
jdv said:
I'm an indie film maker. I'd like to have a cam that delivers 35mm panavision picture quality that can be edited on my PC.

So my dumb question is this: Which one of those camera set-ups will deliver that quality?

What would the approx price be and when - honestly - could I expect to be able to buy one?

Thanks to all -

john
Click to expand...

The thing that's so much more important than what camera you shoot on is the story, directing, acting, production design ect... There is no reason you couldn't win an academy award with a dvx-100 or HPX-170 right now. Even if you had access to all the free film stock, telecine and camera equipment that you needed (even then) you aren't guaranteed to have a great movie (or even a watchable movie for that matter).
I would say use what you have access to right now... that's usually the best policy.
Just my opinion.
 
Kholi said:
I personally think you get more mileage out of a top tier 35mm Adapter, Excellent Primes and an HVX200A.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this.

An HPX500 isn't enough of a jump in quality for a feature unless you're using the HD-SDI out to record too on set... and even then it's probably not worth it.
Click to expand...
I probably agree with this too... (I love my HVX200, but there are times I wish I had a shoulder cam with a better bit depth and longer zoom capabilities)

jdv
B & H has them listed - with 4 P2 cards/lens for $13,500
Click to expand...
That actually does not include a lens. The kit with the p2/lens is $20K.

So, an HPX + the accessories you would want/need would roughly be $27K+ (body, lens, 35mm adapter, P2 cards, camera supports, fancy IOUs to print off to all your friends :) etc)

So yeah, as has been already said, an HVX setup would be great. besides, it's about the story more than the resolution.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top