Indie Armory - a business idea

dougspice

dougspice

Veteran
Here's an idea I had... I'm asking you to help me figure out if it'd be worthwhile.

As I was watching a couple user films and other indie films lately, a thought occurred to me... there's tons of indie camera rental houses, indie grip trucks, low-cost gear... but I don't think there's really any sort of indie weapon supplier. And I see a LOT of low-budget films using a LOT of weapons.

My thought was: I have these weapons. I have a full squad's worth of visually authentic M4A1 rifles, a couple AKs in different configurations, grenade launchers, pistols, tactical gear, etc. I've been acting as an armchair advisor for my friends and their films for a while now, loaning out or renting the weapons. I'm very concerned with authenticity and know the actual real-world history and deployments of these weapons and hundreds of others. And I've got decent connections to guys in the Army, Marines, and private security contractors to answer questions I can't.

So why not put all that to use as a side business? I don't expect I'd make all that much money, but a little, and I'd be helping out filmmakers who can't afford $400 a week to rent this stuff from ISS, can't afford to have a licensed weaponmaster on set, and may not know the safety and practical considerations of the weapons. They may not know what weapons they want or need, and they almost certainly don't actually know how to handle them!

My question: would this be valuable to you? If you've used guns in your movies, or plan to, how much did you pay? Did it work out satisfactorily? How much would you be willing to pay? Do you care much about authenticity and training, or are you more interested in putting whatever looks cool on the screen? (that's not a judgment, by the way, I'm genuinely asking.)

Let me know!
 
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Sounds like you could make a little extra bank with that idea. I'd say that you'd probably have to put in a lot of hours to make it worth it, and might have to invest some $ to get it off the ground, but I'm sure 'if you build it, they will come'. :)

Might wanna do some research about insurance, legalities (if applicable), and standard rental practices beforehand, just to be on the safe side.
 
Well, I already know most of the in-and-outs of renting regular ol' film equipment. You're right that since these are visually perfect firearm replicas, there is a serious liability component, and I'd definitely be talking to my lawyer about that – can't say I know enough about CA law as applies to this right now.

But before I do any of that I just want to figure out whether people would even be interested. There's no use in pursuing it if there's no middle market between the people who are just going to rent the real decommissioned pieces from the big houses and the people who are going to buy $20 plastic airsofts and call it good enough.
 
Definitely. #1 rule for the time being would be that I would not be dealing in ANY live-fire weapons.

Still would love to hear more opinions about the dollar value of this sort of thing. I'm thinking I can stay alive charging about half of what the real prop houses charge.
 
There is a guy who runs a local rock venue that does the same sort of thing... but he actually is an actor and can get hired into your project– complete with black vans, tactical outfits, replica weaponry, and since he runs a rock venue he knows tons of metal heads that look like they could bash someones face in.

Saying all that, I'm sure he does equipment rentals upon asking. It might be worth investing into it if you're prepared to jump through the legal/business set up hoops.
 
I've done that twice before, I'm not too scared of it. I definitely believe in the power of partnerships. I was planning on keeping the business local to start with (things get a little more complicated when you start shipping gear across the country, especially if that gear is indistinguishable from a working AK-47) but I'd love to talk to whoever you're talking about.
 
Hey Doug:

Great idea, but after interviewing weapons masters and hanging with Bill Davis and visiting Gibbons a few times, I would definitely not go into the live fire business. As a gun owner and as someone who has worked with a lot of actors and firearms, being around actors and guns is one of the scariest things I have ever experienced. Non-pros and weapons are just plain scary. I have been on the sets of three films where the actors were specifically instructed NOT to point guns at other actors, not to shoot toward other actors and to fake the eyeline and where they shoot and I have seen several injuries from stupid actors that just cannot seem to listen and obey the weapons master. One must always remember that MANY actors are clinically insane insecure narcissists and then they are handed live fire weapons? It is pretty scary.

I had an interview I photographed with Leonard Maltin. He was interviewing an older actor, who shall reamain nameless but you would definitely know him. Older actor showed up in the lobby of the building we were doing the interview, the lobby is a bank. He somehow charms his way past security with a pair of saddlebags. When he comes upstairs and sits down, Leonard begins interviewing him. He takes out a pair of Colt single action repeaters that Walt Disney gave him, back in the day. He is playing with them and I can see that the ammo belt holsters are studded with what look like live .45 Colt cartridges, Upon closer examination, I can see that the revolvers cylinders all have cartdridges in them. We don't know if these are live rounds, dummy rounds, blanks? The actor is cocking and decocking the colts and waving them around as he is speaking and being interviewed. It turned out later that we found out the rounds were the real deal. Leonard and I were both physically ducking and begging said actor to just hang the guns up in the background on a hat rack as a prop, which he eventually did. Man, actors and guns are probably one of the most dangerous combinations there are.

The liabilities and insurance, E&O and other considerations even with none-firing weapons must be astronomical.

As much as I hate lawyers, my advice would be to talk to one, have your own releases and forms drawn up and make sure that you use them religiously. Not saying that this is necessarily a bad business idea, but cover yourself eighteen ways until Sunday legally. What if some idiot you rent them to is shot by an overzealous security guard or cop? Where does that leave you?

Seeing anyone with weapons who is not trained makes me break out into a cold sweat. Very few people these days have proper firearms safety training and film people are not always the most conservative and prudent minds in the world. In the guerilla world of indie filmmaking, shooting without permits and security is par for the course and in many cases, even non-firing weapons are a tragedy waiting to happen. Even on my student film I made in film school that had a character killing another, I scrapped together a few hundred bucks and paid to have a real weapons master supply the gun, blanks and training and he was on set. If you have notification and permits, non-firing are fairly safe but there always people besides the cops who are not clued in on what is going down that can be a problem.

Be careful.

Dan
 
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That is some sage and prudent advice, puredrifting. I would say even with non-firing replicas, they need the same handling and care, especially with indie films. Many of these shoots are on locations that are not so "closed" and can be within the public eye. The quickest way to lose your shoot would be from an actor playing around with a replica weapon in a foolish manner and somebody not from the set see it. The guys with the real weapons would be showing up, gear be confiscated an maybe a few people going to jail. Not to mention the weapons being seized and destroyed.

I have an understanding with my local PD, meaning they have told me my responsibilities and requirements to providing replicas on a film set in this area, as well as transporting them. I have given them a copy of my training program and my set rules. And it met with their approval, as long as I enforce them.

Bad combination, if not handled properly. Set Etiquette, Training, Set Etiquette, and more Set Etiquette.
 
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Dan, you bring up a number of excellent points. Yes, actors love handling weapons. They love pointing them at each other. They love immediately forgetting everything they've been told in the sake of looking cool. And it is dangerous, whether the weapons are real or not.

In all honesty, that's part of what the business plan would be... not just gun-running, but also providing some guidance and training on weapons safety and general common sense. This stuff was drilled into our heads time and time again in film school, following a few serious incidents and near-fatalities. I get it. I've lectured some people on these boards doing dangerously stupid things. Most of them haven't been ready to learn, but hopefully will someday soon.

But, even if you're not inclined to care about your own personal safety or that of your crew, you surely can at least care about this: the hitmen and badasses you are trying to portray in your films no doubt DO know proper firearm handling and safety. When you show them doing something else, you only make them and your film look ignorant. There are no drawbacks to learning proper safety.

I will be responding to PMs shortly, thanks to those that sent them!
 
dougspice said:
Definitely. #1 rule for the time being would be that I would not be dealing in ANY live-fire weapons.

Still would love to hear more opinions about the dollar value of this sort of thing. I'm thinking I can stay alive charging about half of what the real prop houses charge.
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This sounds very good. But keep in mind the gun laws are crazy in various areas. I have a special effects guy that actually does deal in blank guns and such and the trouble he's gone through is absolutely insane to get the metal airsoft guns from outside the country (from the makers I believe) into the country.

-Nate
 
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