Sell me on DVCPRO HD - What am I missing?

arrestthisman

Well-known member
Okay here are some stills illustrating my frustration with the HVX200 for the last year.

I don't know if this kind of macroblocking is normal or what. I'm selling my HVX200; that's for sure. I was going to buy the HPX170 without question. With the lens and midtone noise issues, I'm now thinking more and more about the EX1.

Before I buy into Sony--(Note: I have been a Panasonic loyalist for 6 years running)--I would greatly appreciate if someone explained to me exactly what I'm losing in practical terms going from DVCPRO HD 100Mbits I-Frame to MPEG long GOP 35Mbit. I'm more interested in 4:2:0 versus 4:2:2. I don't do a lot of chroma keying, and when I do it doesn't need to be perfect. I do like to do a lot of color correction, generally. So more play helps me when it comes to color.

I understand about editing horsepower, and motion artifacts. I use FCP so the workflow should be the same.

The thing is that I do 90% of my shooting in low light. I don't mind grainy noise at all, it goes with the territory, but macroblocks drive me insane. I can't stand the look of them, and for some reason, comparing low light footage, EX1 to HVX200, panny shows ALOT more blocking in low light areas than the EX1.

Check out the gradients in the following pictures. Ugly, Ugly legos. The pic with Cinelike-D has less of it, but it's still there if you check under the window.

I guess the question(s) is this: I know, as I listed above, the obvious reasons DVCPRO HD is considered to be a superior codec, but I would think macroblocking would be an area where it should remain superior? Shouldn't the footage be self-evident?

So, is the low light blocking a function of the camera as a whole, or the specifically the compression? I can't imagine a Varicam offloading those kinds of blocks (even in a severely underlit scene).

1225437670.jpg


1225437739.jpg


Anything to elucidate this for me would be greatly appreciated. I would rather stay in the panny camp. But I don't want to set myself up for more disappointment with the artifacts I hate the most, in the conditions I shoot in the most.

(We all have our little things that bother us obsessively, and other things that we don't mind looking at, at all. It's all part of the subjective nature of imagery.)
 
Woah, i was planning on getting a 170 too, a little noise doesn't both me either I think it kinda looks more like film/grain. But that macroblocking looks pretty awful, I never realised it occurred to that extent on the Hvx. Although the rolling shutter artefacts on the EX1 look awful too, everything’s a compromise i guess.
 
thats not macro blocking.

Thats the color space. even 422 does this.

And yes a varicam will do it too.

this is the "macro blocking" noise. its blown out in photoshop to emphasize it.

http://ftp.datausa.com/imageshoppe/web/artifacts.png

its the stari stepping on tone gradients, not chroma edges. you will see it in smooth blue skies as well. welcome to the 8 bit world.
 
Timur: why is it then less visible on the EX1?

Also, what is the proper terminology for the artifacts I'm referring to. (The "blockyness" in the gradients.)
 
have you put an EX1 side by side in the exact same conditions? im sure it does it too... i rarely see this in my HVX footage. certain circumstances exasperate the problem.
 
The new HVX200A for noise compares with the EX1. There were a lot of EX1 comparisons.
Here's a crop from a 1920x1080 EX1 and HVX200 comparison:

5212d1195865533-chromakey-ex1-hvx200_ex1.bmp
 
Im sorry, but I just don't believe that the HVX cap is the best it can get. We know nothing about the scene file or other settings, and I have a VERY hard time believing that the HVX shot was actually properly focused. You can't tell me that that's the best focus the HVX gets. It appears that the focus is the main difference between those two shots. I know that I can get better focus than that with that much light.
 
Back
Top