D90 D-Movie quality is really, really bad!

i guess after reading almost every post on the D90 in this forum, i know not to expect anything much more than a relatively cheap experimental alternative to have a video camera with interchangeable lens, and that it comes with limitations -plenty of 'em. and am still wanting to have one, or a 5D if I can afford it next year.

but i like Rubbersquare's analogy "the d90's human-ness" because that's exactly how i describe d90's video compared to 5dmk2's video. not confusing weakness with human-ness though, but 5d's super sharp and glossy look feels so machinely accurate that it's less human. just my opinion.

i think this is one of the best usage of d90 i've seen so far: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=147706
 
I can overcome rolling shutter problems, I can overcome compression artifacts and I can overcome lack of manual control.

But what I can't overcome is this!..........

D90Flaw.jpg


What the hell is that? it's the only thing that really bothers me about the D90's video.

I'm guessing that the D90 is capturing a much higher resolution and then squashing it (Badly) to create this "once-every-few-lines" stair-stepping. There is nothing that can be done about it, even in post, and it's really bugging me.

Maybe a firmware update could give us 1080i without the stepping. So then we could, at least, de-interlace down to 720p with smooth lines (Something I do with HDV). I mean, it would cost nothing to add 1080i as it uses the same bitrate as 720p, if i'm not mistaken.

GRRRRRRRR! Curse Nikon for getting me so close to what I want and giving it one flaw I can not overcome :crybaby:
 
this technology is on its babysteps, but soon it will run faster than any other video (or film) technology that ever existed.

the rolling shutter is far away from a solution... but compression, strange downsampling, low resolution is just a matter of some months of its evolution

The higher standards of the Canon full frame will be matched by Nikon next year. Maybe with even more advantages. And vice-versa to every other SLR maker. Just give it time

On Canon vs Nikon, I must say that Nikon always surprised me. if I can say something like this on this forum, I would say that both cams have different souls. Its not just spec sheet differences

I had both cams for a long time, Canon really gives beautiful colors and shades, but Nikon gives a contrast closer of our eyes perception, even using the same film on both.

Is like... Canon is made to shoot cars, Nikon to shoot races. Is hard to explain
 
evilfoxhound said:
Maybe a firmware update could give us 1080i without the stepping. So then we could, at least, de-interlace down to 720p with smooth lines (Something I do with HDV). I mean, it would cost nothing to add 1080i as it uses the same bitrate as 720p, if i'm not mistaken.
Click to expand...

THere isn't enough CPU juice on the D90 to do what we'd like it to do.. There's a reason why the d300 is $1800 and the d90 $1000 with the relatively same sensor. so we have to be realistic that firmware upgrades will be for things not processor intensive.

knock on wood: 24 hours to go before my d90 arrives, and i either curse or love it ;)
 
utako.o said:
THere isn't enough CPU juice on the D90 to do what we'd like it to do.. There's a reason why the d300 is $1800 and the d90 $1000 with the relatively same sensor.
Click to expand...

I don't know about that, in Nikon forums people are bitching about the D90 to have more resolution at ISO3200 than the D300.

And the D300 dont have movie mode at all, like any other SLR until the D90
 
Emanuel said:
Where are you posting Martin?
Click to expand...

I'm sitting in Austria :beer:

As mentioned several times the processing power of the D90 is at its limit and I see no way to improve the 720p. The Nikon D300 has a better LiveView quality (no stair steps) but only 15 fps with similar internal electronics as the D90. The D90 has to process 9 frames more per second so they obviously had to compromise on the downscaling quality.

The only way I see to improve the quality would be a "640x480 HQ" mode with the data rate of the 720p mode. Stair stepping will remain as it is already in the LiveView but it would be less visible because of the smaller size. Quality would be improved but the heartiness and analog feel would certainly stay the same.

But I'm realistic features are usually set in stone and I'm sure they're already working on the next models.
 
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Sorry to have to keep sayin' this.. but the d90 is not an acceptable 720p image and is barely an acceptable 480 image... If you want 720p, shell out the money for a dedicated video acquisition device.

an HF11 + 35mm Adapter is going to cost twice as much, but the image will probably be better. Footprint larger, as well.
 
Here's the kind of testing I love to see. It is from another DVXuser post but I think those people discouraged by this thread, should see this test video and be a good bit cheered up

http://vimeo.com/1713382

I use an HVX200 and was considering a D90 until I started researching the D-movie feature. The Chase Jarvis blog was especially convincing. D-movie research set me back to reality and drove me away from the D90. But the Vimeo test above brightened my day and got me thinking about it again.

Jeff
 
As Exilfoxhound already showed, the biggest problem of the D90 are the stairsteps.

1223541330.jpg


Now here is a quote from the http://www.digitalsecrets.net/secrets/NikD90Movie.html review :

Now the question becomes, how do we get rid of this phenomenon, if possible? We have some ideas not ready for prime time, and they are guaranteed not to be what you might think.
Click to expand...

I really wonder what ideas Mr. iNova has. If there's a solution we'll not see it before December unfortunately.
 
buildyo said:
As Exilfoxhound already showed, the biggest problem of the D90 are the stairsteps.
Click to expand...


Jeez !
I mentioned this from the very first samples weeks ago and no one seemed too bothered by it as we were all trying to address the (auto) exposure problems and Jello cam™ issues.

It's probably caused by Nikon using binning to downsize the sensor information - I have a simple and easy to apply solution if anyone is desperatly interested.

On a side note: we must eventually be honest with ourselves, although with a lot of playing around, tricking the camera and filming within it's limits (never move the camera! :)) we can produce a decent image (with a great depth of field) - but ultimately the D90's video mode is a pile of sh!t compared to what it could have been - and what I don't doubt the next progression will be.
 
Lee Wilson said:
Jeez !
I mentioned this from the very first samples weeks ago and no one seemed too bothered by it as we were all trying to address the (auto) exposure problems and Jello cam™ issues.

It's probably caused by Nikon using binning to downsize the sensor information - I have a simple and easy to apply solution if anyone is desperatly interested.

On a side note: we must eventually be honest with ourselves, although with a lot of playing around, tricking the camera and filming within it's limits (never move the camera! :)) we can produce a decent image (with a great depth of field) - but ultimately the D90's video mode is a pile of sh!t compared to what it could have been - and what I don't doubt the next progression will be.
Click to expand...


Of Course!

Please tell us what you have worked out! :dankk2:
 
Heh, shooting scenes with no hard borders..like a penguin mabe? I had a look at the footage from dpreview and it shows up in the feathers and stuff, it looks like a video game on a sharp TFT monitor but with anti aliasing turned off...

The solution has been mentioned before: no HD from this camera.
Fine with me, I won't have a platform to show my films in HD quality anyway. Web users are still not ready for that, mabe next year. But then I am willing to buy a better body, mabe a RED...

Untill then, just rescale it, the SD videos on vimeo look great.
 
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