New redrock Cinescreen 2 footage!
- Thread starter DM_rider
- Start date
Will Clegg
Veteran
So the light loss is definitely reduced, big time. I'd say that you are gaining almost a stop with the new cinescreen. However, it is at the expense of the bokeh rendering. But some sharpness is gained. I'm glad I have both screens and that's fairly easy to change them out.
I took these tonight. Screen 1 is the old cinescreen (left side), Screen 2 is the new one (right side). Everything shot on an HVX200a with a Nikon 85mm f2 lens, at 1080/24pA. HVX lens is wide open, lighting kit is two lowel pro lights and one lowel v-light (with umbrella to diffuse). This is purposefully set up in low light with some out of focus highlights. You be the judge.
Also, what looks to be severe vignetting is the result of one of the pro lights cast against the background.
I took these tonight. Screen 1 is the old cinescreen (left side), Screen 2 is the new one (right side). Everything shot on an HVX200a with a Nikon 85mm f2 lens, at 1080/24pA. HVX lens is wide open, lighting kit is two lowel pro lights and one lowel v-light (with umbrella to diffuse). This is purposefully set up in low light with some out of focus highlights. You be the judge.
Also, what looks to be severe vignetting is the result of one of the pro lights cast against the background.
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mentatDUKE
Veteran
Thanks for the comparisons Will. Looks like I'll be sticking with the original cinescreen....
Park Edwards
Veteran
is the new screen made out of plastic type of material or glass?
curious because you can have one for 4 dollars that renders bokeh quite nicely and transmits light rather well. if anyone has a redrock kit and they'd like to test the glass i'm referring to, let me know i'll gladly help you out.
curious because you can have one for 4 dollars that renders bokeh quite nicely and transmits light rather well. if anyone has a redrock kit and they'd like to test the glass i'm referring to, let me know i'll gladly help you out.
Tim Joy
Veteran
When you look at the old ground glass vs. the new one, how do they differ? Is the new one more transparent? Less? Smoother grain?
As a DIY'er I'd love to know what they did. I found a source for some amazing ground glass (actual glass, not plastic) that worked really well for my twilightfest entry. Will post some grabs in the thread soon.
As a DIY'er I'd love to know what they did. I found a source for some amazing ground glass (actual glass, not plastic) that worked really well for my twilightfest entry. Will post some grabs in the thread soon.
Will Clegg
Veteran
I thought the grain pattern was really different. In the first cinescreen, the pattern looked almost like translucent sandpaper (this is when focusing on the grain, in my Carrion monitor). The new pattern looks more like beveled glass with thousands of divots. I think the new screen is a little more transparent, but I did not hold them up side to side.
The effect on the bokeh is really interesting. If you look at the two shots at f/2.8 and f/4, I think you'll see that the small highlight in the left third of the shot replicates the shape of the aperture with the old screen, but is more of a blurred circle with the new screen. Also there seems to be a little smear with the new screen. The gradient in the out-of-focus areas is still pretty smooth though. I would say that this is a fair trade in terms of light gain vs. bokeh. If I am shooting outdoors, I would probably still use the old cinescreen, as I really love the bokeh it renders, but indoors, the new screen is just so much brighter and sharper.
Now I am really interested to use both screens on the same production and see how well they play together. Maybe the next dvxfest??
The effect on the bokeh is really interesting. If you look at the two shots at f/2.8 and f/4, I think you'll see that the small highlight in the left third of the shot replicates the shape of the aperture with the old screen, but is more of a blurred circle with the new screen. Also there seems to be a little smear with the new screen. The gradient in the out-of-focus areas is still pretty smooth though. I would say that this is a fair trade in terms of light gain vs. bokeh. If I am shooting outdoors, I would probably still use the old cinescreen, as I really love the bokeh it renders, but indoors, the new screen is just so much brighter and sharper.
Now I am really interested to use both screens on the same production and see how well they play together. Maybe the next dvxfest??
Will Clegg
Veteran
Park Edwards
Veteran
what's a good outter diameter? I can get it up to 4inches.
That's about right. In fact, I am thinking about modify the mount so it can be less obvious and lighter weight. It is similar to the Dremel collet system. That way, one can "colimate' (is there such a verb?) by simply adjusting the depth of the stem in the collet. The collet itself is very small and should help reduce the overall size/weight of the adapter. The center hole can be as small as 1/8 of an inch or even smaller before it becomes unbalanced.
Dremel also has an "EZLock" design where one only need to twist it off/on to replace different blades. In this case, the different diffusers. Plus, the Dremel motor can be adjusted for its speed, which might help the light transmisstion as well.
All this is in my head only. The difficult part is precision. But I thought I just throw it out.
Dremel also has an "EZLock" design where one only need to twist it off/on to replace different blades. In this case, the different diffusers. Plus, the Dremel motor can be adjusted for its speed, which might help the light transmisstion as well.
All this is in my head only. The difficult part is precision. But I thought I just throw it out.
Park Edwards
Veteran
i wouldln't get the dremel collet. it has too much wobble. reason being is the screw to the collet that holds the glass down isn't big enough in diamter so the glass has nohting to latch onto and isn't straight. the best bet is to keep red rock's existing design. the motor spins at a high enough rpm that even it was lighter you wouldn't be improving much.
Ted Ramasola
Veteran
Does anybody know whats the voltage of the rr motor?
Is it 3v., 6v or 12v?
Is it 3v., 6v or 12v?
5.9V, supposedly.
Here is the exact motor they use (not sure if they picked them up this cheap though!)
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2022p.html
Duncan
Here is the exact motor they use (not sure if they picked them up this cheap though!)
http://www.surplusshed.com/pages/item/m2022p.html
Duncan
Park Edwards
Veteran
the problem i faced when building one was that the shaft would "click" when it spun making a loud racket. i had to put a tension spring to stop it from moving back and forth. i wonder if that motor has some sort of bushing to stop it from clicking.
Park Edwards
Veteran
anyone have the outer diameter and inner diameter hole for the glass? i have a sample piece I can ship out to all the existing red rockers. i have one now that's 3.5inches and the hole hasn't been drilled yet.
Ted Ramasola
Veteran
Thanks frobozz,
Thats good to know coz I have a 5.9 motor too in my DIY adapter.
I tested a 3v and a 12v types and it seemed the 5.9 gives a "pleasing" spin. Less vibration at optimum revolution and can be flexible. If i want higher shutter speeds I add another 1.5 AA. If my speeds are just at 24-48-60 i power it with just 2pcs 1.5AA.
Thats good to know coz I have a 5.9 motor too in my DIY adapter.
I tested a 3v and a 12v types and it seemed the 5.9 gives a "pleasing" spin. Less vibration at optimum revolution and can be flexible. If i want higher shutter speeds I add another 1.5 AA. If my speeds are just at 24-48-60 i power it with just 2pcs 1.5AA.
Will Clegg
Veteran
Should be about a half of a stop difference between the 200 and 200a, regardless of which screen you use. But you also have to contend with the noise on the 200 - this is a significant improvement on the 200a/170.
I am in the final stages of post on a short I made with the 200a and the old cinescreen on my M2. Once I have finished the color correction, I will upload some shots - it is really amazing how much cleaner the 200a is.
I am in the final stages of post on a short I made with the 200a and the old cinescreen on my M2. Once I have finished the color correction, I will upload some shots - it is really amazing how much cleaner the 200a is.