what can you expect to make as a DP?

puredrifting said:
Depends on how competitive your market is and how much you need to make to earn a living. To me, $300.00 says, "kid with a camera", not DP. In LA, most working DPs that I hire are between $500.00 and $1,200.00 per day, depending on their reel and experience and my budget.

I am sure it is different in other areas. In LA, DPs are a dime a dozen, there are literally thousands of them and most of them are pretty talented. In a smaller market, perhaps there is not as much competition so you can charge more?

Dan
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I need to move to LA.

A lot of times i see "DP" and then the person tells me abotu the equipment they own. That's my first hint they are not truly professional. When they say "yes i'm a DP, what equipment are you using?" Then I know i've got someone who's done their job on the level I would like.
 
Yes, that's true. Most of the DPs I hire don't own their own cameras. Most of them also want me to rent F950s and HPX-3000s, which I rarely have budget for. The company that I do a lot of freelance producing for owns three HVX-200s, two EX-1s and a Canon XL-H1.

When I work as a DP, I never bring up my own camera package unless the client asks me if I own a camera. I like renting higher end cameras too, but if they are suffering from lack of money, sometimes my DVX and HVX are the only solution for them.

Dan
 
Its actually rather common for what you are calling "real" DPs to own equipment of some form. Most of their agents encourage it off the bat as a good investment.

Typical things many top notch DPs may own:
- Filters (especially the guys who have been around for a long time)
- Specialty lenses they had made over the years (very common for commercial guys)
- B or C camera bodies, lots of guys who have been around own an Arri 35III or 2C or 235 for instance (Kaminski owns at least one 235). Haskel Wexler is another prime example of a "real" DP who owns a lot of cameras. They just keep them on the truck and if they need them, pull them out and get a nice rental. Michael Ballhaus owns several Arri camera bodies.
- Heads - Its very common for some DPs to own Cartoni Lambda heads or other specialty heads, once again, a good rental item that stays on the truck and is billed as used.
- Lighting gear, for example, Roger Deakins owns a lot of specialty lighting rigs they made over the years. You think he brings these out onto his shows out of the goodness of his heart? No, he gets a nice rental on the items (as he should). Of course some guys own more lighting gear than others. Some own a few specialty items, others own trucks full of stuff. When you get into the trucks full of stuff, it is quite common for the DP to go in together with a gaffer he works with a lot. They in turn both keep the gear working.

Bare in mind, most of these guys are not showing up to set with an SUV full of crap; most of this gear is stored at a rental house (sometimes on consignment), and it gets prepped by their crew and loaded on the trucks with the rest of the gear.

Owning equipment is often where the REAL money comes into play. Especially for the people that keep really busy and pay off the gear (and then some) on one feature. It just becomes profit after that.

Kevin Zanit
 
Good input Kevin.

Even though I work on a lot of the biggest sets (EPK/DVD/BTS), I would never have known that, only someone who works as an AC or DP would.

Dan
 
puredrifting said:
Depends on how competitive your market is and how much you need to make to earn a living. To me, $300.00 says, "kid with a camera", not DP. In LA, most working DPs that I hire are between $500.00 and $1,200.00 per day, depending on their reel and experience and my budget.

I am sure it is different in other areas. In LA, DPs are a dime a dozen, there are literally thousands of them and most of them are pretty talented. In a smaller market, perhaps there is not as much competition so you can charge more?

Dan
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I think it really does depend so much on what you're trying to do and the contacts you meet. I mean I can hire tons of DPs, as you said, in the L.A. area for $300/day and I have done just that. But the results are varied, I mean you literally could get someone with a camera and almost no knowledge, seemingly, or you could get a true, consummate professional who is just bored enough to take your gig because it's that or sit home and listen to the wife complain for another day ;)

I have two DPs now, my go-to guys, worked with both now at least several times, it just depends on the project, but I'm really forming a closer relationship with my more experienced DP, who is 10 years my senior, has 4 feature credits, like 60 shorts, 25 music videos, numerous commercials, etc. The guy is a genius at what he does, and he loves it. Why does he work with a small fry director like me who can't afford to pay him properly? Well, I don't know, you'd have to ask him! Haha, but I really appreciate it and I hope he believes in me, I think he does, enough that he figures it's worthwhile to build this relationship so that one day, we can both be doing bigger projects together. He is a real working DP who has done some work that to me is very big, I mean anything where you're shooting a feature with a few million dollar budget to me is big, but I know it's not $100 million blockbuster big. He has been a great connection and I haven't paid him much for the time he's devoted to the projects he's done for me, but I am just hoping in the future I am able to reward his generosity with better paying work that isn't just for my reel, but for big clients. I think that's sometimes what you have to hope is that you connect with a very good DP more experienced than you who for whatever reason sees something in your work or your personality that makes him interested in working with you and seeing where it goes.

I think the #1 thing that frustrates me about all film forums I've seen is that there seems to be some sort of a massive coverup, like everyone wants to protect their salaries, so they tell beginning filmmakers that you can't hire a grip for $100/day, you can't hire a DP for $300/day, you can't do this, you can't do that. Meanwhile there are thousands of us out there doing it every day, and making great work, so I'm not sure what the deal is with that. I understand everyone wants to be paid more, and I understand they are often worth more, too, but what I think needs to be emphasized is that if you are really trying to make great work, and you're able to speak to people and make them believe in you and what you're doing, you will be able to find people to help you out for a lot less than their normal rates. I'm not saying, "Oh you should always underpay everyone, take advantage of everyone you can." No, no, no. I'm saying that when you're starting, odds are VERY good you won't be able to afford everyone's day rates on your short film, which won't make you any money, and on other projects for your reel. You will have to establish these relationships and hope that some people are generous enough to want to help you out, and you need to thank them properly for the favor they are doing you. That means hoping you can help them later, and offer them greater pay.

The first project I worked on with both of my DPs, I hired one (the more experienced) to be my DP, and the other I had do my behind-the-scenes work for $300 for a 12 hour day and he brought an HVX200, P2 cards, and a tripod of his own (my two were filming). That's dirt cheap. I appreciated that he would work for that little to help me get this project finished without breaking the bank. Now, fast forward five months, I hired him shortly after that project for a 22-day corporate project, he made a very nice bit of cash for himself all things considered, and I hired him again for more money the next time to do behind-the-scenes on another project. My business partner hired him for another larger project as both DP and editor. So out of that first connection with me, he has gotten a ton of work and will get more. Despite the lousy pay he got on the first project, it was a door opening and a connection made. Sometimes, even big professionals are open to that type of thing, it just depends on their schedules a lot too.

The DP I was mentioning who is so experienced, he just loves what he does. So if he can fit me in and do a project, even if it's not much money, it's fun to him and a relationship worth fostering for the future potential. I suspect he makes his real money on the commercial work (and I'm sure the features), so he can afford some lower paid passion projects. But like some people have said here, he's the type who doesn't own a camera because he never wants to be hired for his equipment, or for owning a certain type of camera. He wants to be hired for his skills alone. And he's very good at many cameras, shot on the HVX200 many times, the RED One now, 35mm, 16mm, you name it, I'm SURE he's shot on it all.
 
puredrifting said:
Yes, that's true. Most of the DPs I hire don't own their own cameras. Most of them also want me to rent F950s and HPX-3000s, which I rarely have budget for. The company that I do a lot of freelance producing for owns three HVX-200s, two EX-1s and a Canon XL-H1.

When I work as a DP, I never bring up my own camera package unless the client asks me if I own a camera. I like renting higher end cameras too, but if they are suffering from lack of money, sometimes my DVX and HVX are the only solution for them.

Dan
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This is another thing that can be frustrating about some DPs, because if they are fresh out of film school they've just used a lot of really expensive, high-end cameras. Not all of us out in the real world have access to those cameras, or can afford to rent them within the project specifications. It's usually money poorly spent anyway. Why get an F950 for small budget corporate work that's going to turn into a Web video? I guarantee you won't be able to tell the difference between that an and HVX200 when it's shrunk down to a Flash video on the company's Website.

I had a DP who I never worked with again after the first project because before the second, which I was prepared to hire him for, he started laying out terms of him working with me again! He was like, "I didn't like your editor who was on set last time, I don't want him there. Anyway editors aren't usually on set." Not sure where he got that information, editors are on A LOT of professional sets. I've heard some pros say they're on almost every set. Others prefer not to have them on their sets, it just depends. Mine comes with me because he's saved my butt more times than I can count, pointing out things I didn't notice at the time or honestly fulfilling somewhat of a script sup's duties at other times, while he also knows ALL of my equipment and how to set it up, so he can be one of the most valuable grips if necessary. He's too skilled to my shoots not to have him there. Anyway, then this DP said if I was really interested in building a great reel I should shoot 35mm. Well, no, that's not going to help my directing reel that much. But it sure would help his cinematography reel, which is really all he had in mind anyway. That's the problem with recent film school graduates, too concerned about "the shot" that's going to be so great on their reel, they couldn't care less about the project sometimes. My DP now is over that a long time ago, he has a great reel, he only cares about the project and what's right for the project. That's the sign of a professional.

I'm inherently somewhat distrustful of DPs I've never worked with because I'm just not sure what to expect, I've been so spoiled by the two really good ones I work with now that I'd just prefer not to bother finding any others unless absolutely necessary. The two I had found before these two were not professionals, in my mind. Or at least they didn't act like it. The one who wanted his 35mm camera, he was a good DP, he has ability, and he's a good guy, but he's too pushy and thinks that because he went to a 3-year film school that means something. As long as my name is PRODUCER and your name is CINEMATOGRAPHER or any other employee, I don't want to be told what to do when I'm writing the checks. Suggestions are always welcome. Demands and conditions result in you not working with me, or anyone I know, and that's pretty bad, haha.
 
When I hire anyone, if the first thing out of their mouth is spouting off about graduating from XYZ School of Film, I will respond in one of two ways, depending on if I like them or not. If I like them, I respond, "Oh, you graduated from XYZ Film School? That's okay, I won't hold it against you"

If I don't like them, and don't want to hire them, I will respond, "we are still interviewing for this position, thanks for speaking with me". I rarely hire recent graduates of anything anyway since I usually hire strictly based upon experience and personal recommendations. I have hired lots of talented film school graduates but probably more people who have worked their way up through the system.

Dan
 
Funny thing about this business. The old "jack of all trades, master of none" couldn't be so far from the truth. Being a good DP/shooter means that you can also direct and edit. They all compliment each other, strengthening each other. When you know each perspective you provide a more thorough approach and don't hang anyone out to dry.

That said, I've seen too many editors on set think they are co-directing.
And co-DPing. Between a director and DP and hopefully a script sup, the bases should be covered. Let the writers and editors go play golf or something.
 
What is said about owning gear is a half-truth. As was stated above, most DPs will bring a full set of filters, wheels and / or cinema fluid heads, FF equipment and on and on.

Most features hire the camera package from a large house with a full compliment of back-up equipment and full accessories. Because most DPs who own cameras don't have duplicity in their packages, most don't work them on features in the A-Camera capacity.

DPs aren't entirely relegated to feature work. Many of us operate Panaflex cameras for a feature, then move to a vintage owner-operator SuperAmerica for a commercial or music video and then onto an HPX500 for a low-no independent movie or F900R for the latest reality show.

Plenty of the packages I work are ones I, or other owner-operators rent to the show. Typically, not features. But the field is wide open, as is the interpretation of what a lighting cameraman does in any given genre.

e
 
puredrifting said:
When I hire anyone, if the first thing out of their mouth is spouting off about graduating from XYZ School of Film, I will respond in one of two ways, depending on if I like them or not. If I like them, I respond, "Oh, you graduated from XYZ Film School? That's okay, I won't hold it against you"

If I don't like them, and don't want to hire them, I will respond, "we are still interviewing for this position, thanks for speaking with me". I rarely hire recent graduates of anything anyway since I usually hire strictly based upon experience and personal recommendations. I have hired lots of talented film school graduates but probably more people who have worked their way up through the system.

Dan
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haha, I agree. That's about how I am too. I'd prefer to see they have real industry experience. I've started lately to just ask professional contacts for other professional contacts. I mean, I may not know a good script supervisor, because I've never even hired one before (sorry that position is not necessary on a music video or corporate shoot of a low budget, never missed it), but if I want one I'm sure I could ask any number of people who could give me a good recommendation. So that's often how I find crew now, through other crew.
 
JonathanLB said:
haha, I agree. That's about how I am too. I'd prefer to see they have real industry experience. I've started lately to just ask professional contacts for other professional contacts. I mean, I may not know a good script supervisor, because I've never even hired one before (sorry that position is not necessary on a music video or corporate shoot of a low budget, never missed it), but if I want one I'm sure I could ask any number of people who could give me a good recommendation. So that's often how I find crew now, through other crew.
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I love having a scripty, it is just about a must on a scripted show. How many takes did we do of scene 13a? Which were my circle takes? We did 4 and 7/8 pages this morning? You really need one when doing any kind of narrative thing and especially when doing improv comedy.

Dan
 
Did a bigger national spot yesterday
I wont drop names but the DP who was on it has done some features that
would make most people droll.

Anyway, he probably made $10-$15K for the day.

A lot of money but all relative considering we shot 2 film cameras like
they were shooting video, i lost track at how many rolls they went through by 10am
let alone 6pm
 
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