Market in Freefall
- Thread starter Mattykins
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Mattykins
Cute Member
I think there is still a good deal left to be lost. I've been following the market for years. Sitting and watching really. Riding my mutual fund.
I mean, I was watching the market all day today. Watching tomorrow.
Freefall is the best way to describe it. Largest drop since 1987. Watching it was terrible. As soon as 2:00 rolled around the market took a massive loss. $1.1 trillion was lost today in US equities. Don't know how you equate that to no money lost.
I would say check your portfolio - surely you took a hit. I think everyone did. Diversified or not.
Tomorrow will say a lot though. Wheels aren't coming off no. 7% is a lot though. 7% took 6 years to make back after 9/11. And that was just in low-risk mutuals.
I mean, I was watching the market all day today. Watching tomorrow.
Freefall is the best way to describe it. Largest drop since 1987. Watching it was terrible. As soon as 2:00 rolled around the market took a massive loss. $1.1 trillion was lost today in US equities. Don't know how you equate that to no money lost.
I would say check your portfolio - surely you took a hit. I think everyone did. Diversified or not.
Tomorrow will say a lot though. Wheels aren't coming off no. 7% is a lot though. 7% took 6 years to make back after 9/11. And that was just in low-risk mutuals.
The entire basis for this economic system strikes me as absurd. People invest in "companies" and don't even know what it is these "companies" actually make or do. And then people "panic," an absolutely natural but hardly logical human emotion, and everything crumbles. I don't want to rely on a system where everyone just assumes that investing in unknown companies providing unknown products and services is going to guarantee them some sort of riches, and then these same people react equally blindly to news they don't understand and my ability to eat and keep a roof over my head is threatened? It's ridiculous. Maybe we have expected to "have it all" without understanding where it "all" was going to come from. Maybe there is a future where people don't throw away 1/3 of the food they buy, and don't drive two blocks to the corner store because they think they can, and don't replace their computer monitor because it's the wrong colour. Just how I'm thinkin...
99% for sure the money will be borrowed, Probably from the Chinese and they're the ones who owned some of these instruments in the first place.
The good news is, or the good news might be, that assuming the government buys all this toxic paper, there's a reasonable chance it will eventually be worth something. It might end up being worth more than 700 billion.
Evan S
Veteran
Don't worry, if the value of the assets drops we still won't lose, our children and grandchildren will deal with it. So it's like win-win for us.
Matt Gottshalk
Resident Preditor
Ever wonder where this $700 Billion number came from?
In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.
"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."
Forbes.com
Well, THAT certainly inspires confidence. :huh:
In fact, some of the most basic details, including the $700 billion figure Treasury would use to buy up bad debt, are fuzzy.
"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."
Forbes.com
Well, THAT certainly inspires confidence. :huh:
This is the crux of it in my book too. I don't understand the drive to be filthy rich...never did. At the end of the day, if I've produced something of value, my tummy is full and I have nothing to worry about, I'm a happy camper. Life is a precious commodity to me,,,So much to learn, feel and embrace. I can't fathom the amount of people I know who are on some eternal quest to produce nothing of value, instead, they spend every waking hour trying to make money make more money.
Capt Quirk
Veteran
Somebody sent this to my wife, and it makes the most investment sense-
> Here's a little retirement information:
> >
> >
> > > If you had purchased $1,000.00 of Delta Air Lines
> > > stock one year ago, you*would have $49.00 left.
> > > > With Enron, you would have had $16.50 left
> of the
> > > original $1, 000.00.
> > > > With WorldCom, you would have had less than
> $5.00
> > > left.
> > > > But, if you had purchased $1,000..00 worth
> of beer
> > > one year ago, drunk all of the beer, then turned
> in the
> > > cans for the aluminum recycling REFUND, you would
> have had
> > > $214.00.
> > > > Based on the above, the best current
> investment
> > > advice is to drink heavily and recycle.
> > > > It's called the 401-Keg.*
> Here's a little retirement information:
> >
> >
> > > If you had purchased $1,000.00 of Delta Air Lines
> > > stock one year ago, you*would have $49.00 left.
> > > > With Enron, you would have had $16.50 left
> of the
> > > original $1, 000.00.
> > > > With WorldCom, you would have had less than
> $5.00
> > > left.
> > > > But, if you had purchased $1,000..00 worth
> of beer
> > > one year ago, drunk all of the beer, then turned
> in the
> > > cans for the aluminum recycling REFUND, you would
> have had
> > > $214.00.
> > > > Based on the above, the best current
> investment
> > > advice is to drink heavily and recycle.
> > > > It's called the 401-Keg.*
Kirk Gillock
Rebel with a cause
"The world has enough for our needs but not for our greed." - Gandhi
This entire problem can be traced back to the greed of a few hurting the many. Banks trying to expand too quickly. Consumers wanting things they can't afford. And now the government wanting $700 billion to bail everything out.
I just read that the CEO of WaMu (my bank) is set to receive $19 million when the JPMorgan deal goes through. He's been CEO for 18 days, during their worst period in 100 years!!! So while stock holders were losing millions the guy in charge was getting rich as his company was failing. We've created a system in which failure is rewarded and there is no accountability.
Eventually a system like that has to bust. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Times like these help clean out all the junk, helps make us stronger and smarter, and reveal what really matters in life. Substance over style. Cash over credit. DVXuser over everything.
Hang in there. Nature finds a way.
This entire problem can be traced back to the greed of a few hurting the many. Banks trying to expand too quickly. Consumers wanting things they can't afford. And now the government wanting $700 billion to bail everything out.
I just read that the CEO of WaMu (my bank) is set to receive $19 million when the JPMorgan deal goes through. He's been CEO for 18 days, during their worst period in 100 years!!! So while stock holders were losing millions the guy in charge was getting rich as his company was failing. We've created a system in which failure is rewarded and there is no accountability.
Eventually a system like that has to bust. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Times like these help clean out all the junk, helps make us stronger and smarter, and reveal what really matters in life. Substance over style. Cash over credit. DVXuser over everything.
Hang in there. Nature finds a way.
Capt Quirk
Veteran
That is the kind of guy who needs his wallet bled, and given back to the companies investors and patrons.
J.R. Hudson
Spirit Animal
"The world has enough for our needs but not for our greed." - Gandhi
This entire problem can be traced back to the greed of a few hurting the many. Banks trying to expand too quickly. Consumers wanting things they can't afford. And now the government wanting $700 billion to bail everything out.
I just read that the CEO of WaMu (my bank) is set to receive $19 million when the JPMorgan deal goes through. He's been CEO for 18 days, during their worst period in 100 years!!! So while stock holders were losing millions the guy in charge was getting rich as his company was failing. We've created a system in which failure is rewarded and there is no accountability.
Eventually a system like that has to bust. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Times like these help clean out all the junk, helps make us stronger and smarter, and reveal what really matters in life. Substance over style. Cash over credit. DVXuser over everything.
Hang in there. Nature finds a way.
Nice post Pk.
The Empire will fall. This I am certain of.
Mattykins
Cute Member
Any thought that the people will get a paycheck is pretty out there. It's just not how the system works.
The economic stimulus check many got didn't go back to the economy - it went to pay bills. The system is getting dragged down. Yeah, it would be great to get money directly. But the street of wall is the place that determines what our interest rates are, what oil prices are, how much the dollar is worth, how much a company is worth.
Without it - the economy doesn't function.
Though today took a loss, if you are smart, and watch different portfolios you could have made a good deal of money.
1,000 today would have yielded an additional 900 dollars in a last minute trade for two separate alternative energy companies. Ultrashort ProShare ETFs would have yielded 14ish percent.
I guess the market is set by greed. That's why day trading exists. Trades last seconds to minutes. Most pull before closing bell - since there is no telling what will happen after hours. The DOW lost 200 points after close.
It's all about riding the market and knowing what to trade.
People getting millions for being a CEO is stupid. Not much you can do. The market is a scary place. Though I think it's exciting, aside from the moments we take a plunge like today. Yet in loss there can be gain.
The economic stimulus check many got didn't go back to the economy - it went to pay bills. The system is getting dragged down. Yeah, it would be great to get money directly. But the street of wall is the place that determines what our interest rates are, what oil prices are, how much the dollar is worth, how much a company is worth.
Without it - the economy doesn't function.
Though today took a loss, if you are smart, and watch different portfolios you could have made a good deal of money.
1,000 today would have yielded an additional 900 dollars in a last minute trade for two separate alternative energy companies. Ultrashort ProShare ETFs would have yielded 14ish percent.
I guess the market is set by greed. That's why day trading exists. Trades last seconds to minutes. Most pull before closing bell - since there is no telling what will happen after hours. The DOW lost 200 points after close.
It's all about riding the market and knowing what to trade.
People getting millions for being a CEO is stupid. Not much you can do. The market is a scary place. Though I think it's exciting, aside from the moments we take a plunge like today. Yet in loss there can be gain.
Jay Rodriguez
Coffee Member
BobDiaz
The Professor
A little bit of history in needed here:
A lot of people think of the stock market crash as a sudden event. In a way in 1929, yes the market did take a sudden dive, BUT as you can see, it took almost 3 years for it to hit the all time low.
However, this was not the last time we saw a bad fall in the market, 1937-1938, 1939, 1940, 1941-1942, 1946, 1950, 1957, 1966, 1970, 1987, 1990, 1998, 2001, & 2002 all show up as big drops in the Stock Market.
In every case, the market does recover, it's just a question of how long. The longest time was from the peak of 1929 to 1953 (24 years) to reach the same high. All the other drops recover in about 5 years or less. (The exception is 1937-1938 took 8 years to recover.)
The 700 billion dollar question is, will the events of the last year in the stock market take <5 years, 8 years, or 24 years to recover???
Bob Diaz
A lot of people think of the stock market crash as a sudden event. In a way in 1929, yes the market did take a sudden dive, BUT as you can see, it took almost 3 years for it to hit the all time low.
However, this was not the last time we saw a bad fall in the market, 1937-1938, 1939, 1940, 1941-1942, 1946, 1950, 1957, 1966, 1970, 1987, 1990, 1998, 2001, & 2002 all show up as big drops in the Stock Market.
In every case, the market does recover, it's just a question of how long. The longest time was from the peak of 1929 to 1953 (24 years) to reach the same high. All the other drops recover in about 5 years or less. (The exception is 1937-1938 took 8 years to recover.)
The 700 billion dollar question is, will the events of the last year in the stock market take <5 years, 8 years, or 24 years to recover???
Bob Diaz
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
How is this topic not getting closed for being political???
Anyway, I keep hearing this theory that eventually the junk mortgages will have value again, and the taxpayers (i.e. the government) could even make a profit. If that's true -- if they really believed that -- then why bail out the banks at all? Let them wait for the profit potential to resurface on these mortgages, and cash in then. That's what they're in business for.
I honestly believe that if we were smart and educated as consumers and investors, then this whole thing would correct itself over time without the need for nationalizing this mortgage debt via a government payoff. Yes, it would be painful for us in the interim -- some more than others. Older people (like me) would suffer more than younger folks. But the choice, it seems to me, is either WE bite the bullet now, or our grandchildren bite it in years to come. We caused this mess -- we should be the ones to suffer for it.
Anyway, I keep hearing this theory that eventually the junk mortgages will have value again, and the taxpayers (i.e. the government) could even make a profit. If that's true -- if they really believed that -- then why bail out the banks at all? Let them wait for the profit potential to resurface on these mortgages, and cash in then. That's what they're in business for.
I honestly believe that if we were smart and educated as consumers and investors, then this whole thing would correct itself over time without the need for nationalizing this mortgage debt via a government payoff. Yes, it would be painful for us in the interim -- some more than others. Older people (like me) would suffer more than younger folks. But the choice, it seems to me, is either WE bite the bullet now, or our grandchildren bite it in years to come. We caused this mess -- we should be the ones to suffer for it.
Michael Anthony Horrigan
More Cowbell Pictures
Because it hasn't turned into a political debate? :huh:
Michael Anthony Horrigan
More Cowbell Pictures
Well said. :thumbup:"The world has enough for our needs but not for our greed." - Gandhi
This entire problem can be traced back to the greed of a few hurting the many. Banks trying to expand too quickly. Consumers wanting things they can't afford. And now the government wanting $700 billion to bail everything out.
I just read that the CEO of WaMu (my bank) is set to receive $19 million when the JPMorgan deal goes through. He's been CEO for 18 days, during their worst period in 100 years!!! So while stock holders were losing millions the guy in charge was getting rich as his company was failing. We've created a system in which failure is rewarded and there is no accountability.
Eventually a system like that has to bust. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Times like these help clean out all the junk, helps make us stronger and smarter, and reveal what really matters in life. Substance over style. Cash over credit. DVXuser over everything.
Hang in there. Nature finds a way.
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