FIREPROOF - The new film from Sherwood Pictures

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Kubrick71 said:
Amen to that!

I dont see why Christian films have to talk about Jesus and the church so much, being religious etc. Jesus was a philosopher, so why not take his views and make a movie about his philosophy. Any many have, whether they intentionally used things Jesus believed in or not, like Callaghan said, many great films are spiritually uplifting and these don't have to be cheesy.

Even if you are going to make "Christian" movies, I think people of all types would watch them no problem, if they are good.

And there are quite a few really good movies about the Muslim faith that aren't cheesy either, so I wonder if there is just a lack in talent from the Christian filmmaking community. Thats definitely not directed toward anyone on this board, I'm just saying that straight to dvd movies are cheesy because the filmmakers usually lack talent so maybe its the same with Christian filmmakers.
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It's fine making movies promoting Jesus' teachings. As you say, many people have. But what's wrong with making movies about people accepting or relying upon Christ as their Savior? Why can't people make those movies too, if they want?

If it's true that 80% of the people in the US call themselves Christians, then why are there so few real Christian characters in movies and on TV? Not counting, of course, those presented as stupid, insane, perverted, murderous, or dull -- which seems to be most Christian characters in movies and TV.

Just to have a little fun with your words: "I dont see why zombie films have to be about zombies and cannibalism so much, being violent etc."

"Even if you are going to make "zombie" movies, I think people of all types would watch them no problem, if they are good. "

Finally, a lot of the time Christian movies are cheesy because they couldn't get enough money to hire the top talent, either in front of or behind the camera. Most Christian movie projects can't get a fraction of the money that Mel Gibson put into Passion. If they could, their production values would be far better.

I also think it's hard to find producers, directors, talent, etc. willing to do Christian movies. The quality talent is aiming for a career in the business. They know that being connected with Christian projects is an albatross when trying to get a break in Hollywood.



And no matter how good the Christian movie is, there will always be some who will consider it to be lame or cheesy.
 
Just saw the thread for this film and it looks pretty good actually.

On a lighter note - I do find it somewhat funny that they gave a quote from "Bubba Cathy, Senior Vice President of Chic-fil-A" on their website. Is he really known in Christian circles or something. I mean all of the other quotes - it made sense who they were from.

Don't get me wrong. I loves me some chicken fillet nuggets - but what the hey? :D
 
chapelgrovefilms;1412848 I also think it's hard to find producers said:
This is exactly what I've been saying, if you want to break into hollywood avoid Christian films, and do porn instead, that seems to be the fastest way to make it now days.

and by 80% I mean the amount of Americans who Claim to worship Christ, not just those who celebrate Christmas, Many Christians in fact don't celebrate Christmas.

There are two main problems with Christian films today,

one production value, this I hope is changing,

two preachiness, you don't need to preach to have a good Christian story whether it's a bible story, or a story about someone today fighting to do the right thing, or strugling with faith, or just finding Christ.

and there are those who will automaticly hate any film that shows Christ in a good light, just as many barked at Juno and Bella for being "anti choice" becuase they made a choice.
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Jason Miller said:
This is exactly what I've been saying, if you want to break into hollywood avoid Christian films, and do porn instead, that seems to be the fastest way to make it now days.

and by 80% I mean the amount of Americans who Claim to worship Christ, not just those who celebrate Christmas, Many Christians in fact don't celebrate Christmas.

There are two main problems with Christian films today,

one production value, this I hope is changing,

two preachiness, you don't need to preach to have a good Christian story whether it's a bible story, or a story about someone today fighting to do the right thing, or strugling with faith, or just finding Christ.

and there are those who will automaticly hate any film that shows Christ in a good light, just as many barked at Juno and Bella for being "anti choice" becuase they made a choice.
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Very valid points.

Production values will change when more money is available to people making Christian movies.

Your last point is very well taken. My first feature -- "Afterlife" -- was by no means a Christian movie. It's a romantic love story about a man being haunted by the ghost of his beloved wife, who wants him to join her on the other side. But it did have a strong Christian character -- the beloved wife. And it did have the man thinking and talking about what happens to us after we die. It also had a street preacher and a friend of the dead woman. The friend knew her from their church. It also had a scene in hell, with a devil and she-devil. At any rate, my point is -- one of the actors in the movie felt we were 'hitting people over the head' with Christianity. I believe any film with ANY positive Christian character is going to be hit with that same accusation.

I'm in complete agreement with you, Jason.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
It's fine making movies promoting Jesus' teachings. As you say, many people have. But what's wrong with making movies about people accepting or relying upon Christ as their Savior? Why can't people make those movies too, if they want?

If it's true that 80% of the people in the US call themselves Christians, then why are there so few real Christian characters in movies and on TV? Not counting, of course, those presented as stupid, insane, perverted, murderous, or dull -- which seems to be most Christian characters in movies and TV.

Just to have a little fun with your words: "I dont see why zombie films have to be about zombies and cannibalism so much, being violent etc."

"Even if you are going to make "zombie" movies, I think people of all types would watch them no problem, if they are good. "

Finally, a lot of the time Christian movies are cheesy because they couldn't get enough money to hire the top talent, either in front of or behind the camera. Most Christian movie projects can't get a fraction of the money that Mel Gibson put into Passion. If they could, their production values would be far better.

I also think it's hard to find producers, directors, talent, etc. willing to do Christian movies. The quality talent is aiming for a career in the business. They know that being connected with Christian projects is an albatross when trying to get a break in Hollywood.



And no matter how good the Christian movie is, there will always be some who will consider it to be lame or cheesy.
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Well I never said, and don't think, that there is anything wrong with making movies with the church or Jesus, I just asked the question why "Christian" films always seem to have those components. Its my feeling that those components stick out like a sore thumb which makes it cheesy, and I don't see this being solved unless some really good filmmaker were to handle them.

It seems like you think people are against "Christian" films, which I don't think is true, like I said before, I think most people (not all of course) would be willing to watch "Christian" films if they were actually good.

And I kind of think its a cop out to say the lack of quality Christian films is from budgets, that'd be easy for anyone to say who makes cheesy made for tv movies or straight to dvd stuff. Many talented people have made great films on very low budgets, nuff said. Sure if you have 20 million to make a Christian film, you will get better actors/crew etc, so I don't see the problem, I think you'd be just fine getting people who wanted to be paid to work. An actor or crew looking for work is not going to turn down a great script because its religious, I don't buy that one sorry.

What about Henry Poole is Here? That movie is religious and depicts Christian characters in a good light, it has a star like Luke Wilson in it and its gotten good reviews and the people I know who saw it enjoyed it thoroughly.

Plus I see it as being about Christian filmmakers needing to become talented, not needing to attract talent, because if you have the former the latter will follow.


chapelgrovefilms said:
I believe any film with ANY positive Christian character is going to be hit with that same accusation.
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I don't believe that true, A Clockwork Orange has a positive Christian character in the prison minister, and no one says thats hitting people over the head with Christianity.

Edit: Here's a poll I found about the percentage thing with Christianity
http://www.gallup.com/poll/109108/Belief-God-Far-Lower-Western-US.aspx
 
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Without having seen "Henry Poole", I can comment. So I'll give you that one. That's ONE. Now name a dozen more.

As for "Clockwork Orange" -- can you name a mainstream Hollywood movie made LESS than nearly four decades ago that shows a positive Christian character?

I never said there weren't any -- just darned few. Compare that against the plethora of movies and TV shows depicting Christians in a very bad light.
 
But you did say there weren't any, "ANY movie with any positive Christian Character"

Even if Clockwork were made today no one would say that so being 4 decades old doesn't matter with this specific movie. There might not be tons of examples, but the fact is you can portray positive Christian characters in a mainstream movie and the audience won't necessarily say you're "hitting them over the head with Christianity" it just has to be done right, which takes talent.

I never condoned showing Christians in a bad light nor said there was an equal good versus bad depictions so I wont even go there. However, I really can't name a dozen more because like a lot of people are saying, most Christian films are cheesy, its not the audience just ragging on it solely because its Christian, I think it relates back to the lack of talent by the Christian filmmakers to make it not cheesy.
 
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Okay, there are SOME. But they're rare. And they're not usually the main characters. The story doesn't usually center around them.

It's become predictable on cop shows like 'Law and Order' -- if a Christian character is introduced, most of the time he or she is either the killer or had something to do with the crime. The rest of the time they're quite often narrow-minded, rabid activists, or perverts. Rarely are they positive role models.
 
I guess this is my main point -- "Passion of the Christ" made a FORTUNE at the box office, and it wasn't even in English. Normally Hollywood would be falling all over itself to capitalize on the success of something like this. But they're not. Why not? There is clearly a market starving for this kind of storyline. Why aren't more filmmakers actively pursuing it? Why isn't Hollywood ready to pony up big bucks for solid Christian movies?

Personally, I think Christian horror movies could be made. I know of at least one author who writes Christian horror novels. Christian dramas. Even Christian comedies. Christian romantic-comedies. Christian scifi? Why not? Christian westerns. The sky's the limit!

I had a conversation with actress Jennifer O'Neill at a dinner once. She said Christian movies are never going to get better, never going to be taken seriously, until they have much bigger budgets. And I think she's right.

Have you seen the movie "The List"? There's a good Christian movie. Not perfect, but good. Malcolm McDowall, Will Patton, Hilarie Burton and others (including an actress who was in my feature "Afterlife"). Shot on film, good production values. Got theatrical release, and is now out on DVD. That movie was made on a budget of $900,000. Think what they could have done with even just $9 million.
 
Haven't read the whole thread here, but what about movies like The Chronicles of Narnia films? Or even The Matrix?

They have Christian themes without being cheesy.
 
jasonthewho said:
Haven't read the whole thread here, but what about movies like The Chronicles of Narnia films? Or even The Matrix?

They have Christian themes without being cheesy.
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Yeah totally, and don't get me wrong, I'm in no way saying it can't be done, just that it takes talent to do. And it isn't some anti Christian movie sentiment in Hollywood or by audiences.

I don't think that just because Passion of the Christ did so well at box offices that people are starving for these types of stories, it was just that the movie was unique and reached people on the level of art.

Take the movies Virgin Spring and The Seventh Seal for example, they center around Christian content and are masterpieces (at least in my eyes). I see that they portray religion truthfully and in an artistic way. And that is why I think they succeeded.

Don Cheadle in Traitor plays a devout muslim, the film centers around his religious beliefs and is very key in the entire movie. Walking out of that film I didn't think the Muslim aspects hit me over the head or were cheesy at all.
 
I may be overstepping here. However, why would people want to watch a movie or pay for a movie when they can go to Church on Sunday and do it themselves?

I mean, could this be a reason there is not a huge market for these films? I feel I'm asking this question, because I already know the answer.

The point I'm trying to make here is not that Christian's do not want to watch christian based films. It's the fact that most people even if they are deeply religious do not want to be preached to. It's hokey!

I showed the trailers of a couple of these films (fireproof, etc) to my girlfriend. While she doesn't attend church all the time. Or read the bible very often. She does believe in god/christ. (I'm going to be honest here, and come out and say I'm completely atheist, but still enjoy good films religious or not.) Anyway, I showed my girlfriend, and her general opinion is that they seemed corny and she wouldn't pay to see it. She sort of laughed it off.

Obviously, she's not the only opinion out there, I just find it interesting because it's a different viewpoint from mine. We both sort of agree - It's seems like exploitation of the consumer to buy a product because they believe in god or what have you.

Which is what I was saying earlier on in the thread.

For christian films to work for a general audience that are casual movie-goers, and "casual" Christians or believers in god - it has to be more subtle. There is no point in making christian films as a "tool" for Christians exclusively (because they already believe). It just seems to me, why make something that will alienate your own target demographic? (which is really obviously the casual christian, to get them to go to church or what have you. Whatever the purpose of the film is.)

It just seems odd to me. I keep hearing christian films being referred to as TOOLS in this thread. I simply dislike the connotation of that. It sounds more like PROPAGANDA to me.

So please, don't make films as *TOOLS make films because you want others to relax and escape their own problems. Something they can enjoy. Whether it be a film about Christians, Muslims, Indians, or whatever the heck it's about. Just don't make something that is being used to indoctrinate people to believe in something, or force your beliefs onto unsuspecting casual movie goers.

Again, not speaking specifically about these films mentioned in the thread. Just more towards what people are saying about Christian films in general.

*Unless of course it's a documentary, or a school activity film :P
 
jasonthewho said:
Haven't read the whole thread here, but what about movies like The Chronicles of Narnia films? Or even The Matrix?

They have Christian themes without being cheesy.
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Chronicles, yes. Matrix, no.

The CoN was written by C.S. Lewis. If you're not familiar with his work, he's written many different Christian book, a lot of which were allegorical.

The Matrix, while it CAN be perceived as Christian, shouldn't be. If anything, it's closer to new-agism than Christianity. I used to try to convince myself that with key characters like Trinity, 'The One' and so on, places like Zion, and the Nebuchadnezzar (their ship) that it must be Christian based. Too many other things point to new age, though.
 
There were some comments about budget being a limiting factor, while I agree that Christian films have suffered in the past by minimal resources that is not so much the case anymore. But the "church" still has the mindset of not "wasting" money of frivolous activities and so even when the monies are available they can sometimes produce sub-par products.

Also, there was mention by a few that Hollywood snubs "Christ" oriented films, while I do agree there seems to be an anti-Christian/anti-Jesus vibe pervasive in much of the "arts" I think the bigger problem Hollywood (and I use that term to refer to the film community at large) has is that traditionally "Jesus" oriented films are cheesy/low-quality/poorly written/not worth viewing. It isn't that they wouldn't get behind and fully support a Christian film with a Christ centered theme, but that they want to be assured it will make them money (they are a business after all and regardless of anything else, at the end of the day they are trying to turn a profit).

Another thought I had was this ... there is a large group of the "church world" that traditionally has viewed film media as "sinful". Many of the protestant churches have traditionally taught that to go to the cinema was a sin. So there is this huge shift in the mentality that is taking place and many of the older generation still view it with a skewed perception. So for them, unless it is these cheesy, hallmark, say the sinners prayer or else type films then it can't be "of God" and they cannot attend. I think this may be why many of the earlier attempts at "christian film" have been so overt, over the top, cheesy and preachy. But we are starting to see a shift in the trend with the younger generation producing high quality films that are less cheese ... though we still have a ways to go, IMHO.

I was also thinking last night ... a huge issue that pervades Christian films is that the sinners are "not so bad" and the Christians are perfect. There is this notion that if we have a Christian character in a film then they have to be flawless, can never have a crisis of faith, can never stumble or make bad choices, etc. And they also make the "sinners" equally as positive and uplifting as the Christian character, they just haven't said the sinners prayer yet.

For a film to be believable it needs to be centered in truth. Even when it is a fictional story, the characters need to be truthful to who they are and what they claim to believe, or not believe. We need to see Christian characters who question God, wonder why these bad things are happening, making bad choices, etc ... with the ultimate goal of showing the promise of God's forgiveness and redemption. I don't want to see goody-two-shoes characters, I want to see characters who, like me, don't always get it right.

Finally (I was trying to not put another long post, but I just have so many thoughts on this subject), I think if we, as Christian filmmakers, would stop trying SO HARD to make a film that will "WIN THE WORLD" and instead just tell stories that are grounded in our personal world view we will see greater success.

C.S. Lewis, when talking about his Chronicles of Narnia series said that he never intended to make an allegorical story. He just wanted to write a great children's series. But his world view was grounded in his Christian beliefs and that affected how he saw the world and how he told a story. And as a result we have these wonderful books that can be read as pure, fantastical fiction; but if you want to take the time to unravel the layers you can see this beautiful allegory of the Christian story.
 
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