Can't help it my brain just went this way

Luis Caffesse said:
I don't see swear words connotations or meanings as being any more arbitrary than any other word - these are words that have been added to our language over the years, and society (through it's usage and repetition of the word) has decided on its connotation and meaning. The F-word has always been seen as a loaded word with a negative connotation. It's been used for centuries (at least) and has never been considered by society as a whole to have a positive connotation in all that time.

You can say otherwise if you want, because you personally don't find it offensive, but that ignores the whole of society and history that disagrees.

To say the connotation and meaning is arbitrary is analogous to saying "What is dog was spelled c-a-t?"
It just doesn't mean much of anything - because in the end it does carry a connotation with it, whether we like it or not.
And dog is still spelled d-o-g...otherwise it wouldn't be "dog".

We may have to agree to disagree.
:)
Click to expand...

Just because it's old and a lot of people think it, don't mean it ain't arbitrary. ;)

The earliest known use of the F-bomb is about 1500. The selections of what is profane and what is not, were chosen long before. And those selections are a direct result of the THINGS chosen to be profane or not. I am trying to leave the name of the culprit out of it, for fear of closing the thread. But F*cking is a bad word, because certain people in society decided that what it refers to is bad.

So what you describe as "the whole of history," is more like a sliver of history controlled by a very specific group of people with very specific ideas about what is good and what is bad. And to these people, the thing f*ck refers to is considered bad. Thus the word came to be bad.

But, my point is, F*ck being a "bad word" is not a foregone conclusion. Sure a lot of people might think it's bad, but that's not any kind of good reason to me. And I bet you could ask 100 people WHY it's bad, as opposed to the word "sex" and I bet most could not give a real reason.

What exactly is the negative connotation of the word "F*ck?" anyway?

I was wrong to say that the meaning was arbitrary. I meant only connotation.
 
Oh don't get me wrong Bob - I don't use it out of the context of being with friends.

I, like many, have different personality types. When I am in a business conference it's very different from me being on a show, is very different from me hanging out with friends.

I would never dream of swearing in a professional setting.
 
One of my best friends growing up, his parents and entire family constantly swore, I can remember being like 12 years old and just hearing the craziest amount of swearing to each other. We'd be downstairs and his mom would yell down to him "Get up stairs and come eat"......"In a minute"......"Get up here you little F*cker" " F*ck off Mom, I'm doing something" "Ahhh you little prick" " F*ckoff, get the F*ck away from the door". I swear they would tell each other off like 5-6 times daily, it's just the way they were and it was never anything big to them, just the way they talked to each other, and it wasn't like his parents were bad people, they were loving parents, but that's just how the communicated. It was hilarious to hear them go at it.

I can remember on one occasion we were coming from our little league baseball game and we were stopping into the store to grab a Pepsi, and my friend was short by like 10 cents so his mom says "Here take these pennies in" "I'm not f*cking taking any pennies in there" "It's still f*cking money dickhead." We still laugh our asses of telling that story.

I don't swear very often, and when I was a kid I'd never swear around my parents. I think I swear the most when I'm watching Football or Hockey or when I'm around people I know, like friends and family.


My wife took our oldest son into Sunday School at about age 5. The teacher was talking about "bad words", when my son raised his hand. He then stood up and announced very clearly, "My Papa says 'Fu*k'!" My wife just about died on the spot.
Click to expand...

ralphiesoap.jpg
 
Last edited:
Hm. I still stand behind my approach of a word is just a word. Yes, it is true that it carries meaning. But, if you go out and shout SHOOT! Nobody is going to be offended. I think if people just accepted the word as a word it wouldn't be offensive. I don't use it because I don't see the need (unless I am posting on here because I know it translates to poo poo which is funny to me :D)

That's just my opinion.
 
Capt Quirk said:
My wife took our oldest son into Sunday School at about age 5. The teacher was talking about "bad words", when my son raised his hand. He then stood up and announced very clearly, "My Papa says 'Fu*k'!" My wife just about died on the spot.
Click to expand...


Thats the spirit.:thumbup:
 
Mark Harris said:
And I bet you could ask 100 people WHY it's bad, as opposed to the word "sex" and I bet most could not give a real reason.
Click to expand...

Simple: because society has already defined a set of words which are recognized as for having the purpose of insulting/ abusing/ cursing/ causing offence/ or of being a derogatory nature.

(1) "I got busted by the police""

(2) "I got busted by the pigs"

They both mean the same thing, of course one is recognised as derogatory due to society norms and conventions.
 
Last edited:
But the thing is this is all VERY subjective. What is offensive to one person could be another's voice mail greeting. It is true that society has majority morals, but there are no uniform rules that everyone agrees with completely.
 
Anhar Miah said:
Simple: because society has already defined a set of words which are recognized as for having the purpose of insulting/ abusing/ cursing/ causing offence/ or of being a derogatory nature.
Click to expand...

Oh really? Sorry I must have missed that meeting. When did this happen? Was it a vote?

My point is that "because society says so," is not a valid reason for, well, anything.

I know society has norms, I just find blind adherence to a list of "bad words," an extremely silly norm, and again, one worthy of examination.

Here's another example. Nobody thinks twice about talking about last night's ball game and saying: "The Yankees KILLED 'em." Why is it that "kill" can be tossed about so lightly but do not utter a single "F*ck?" F*cking is FUN, and for heaven's sake, the way we perpetuate our species! Killing, not so much.

Well, I know the answer to that, but I'm just bringing it up the make the point about arbitrary selection.
 
Anhar Miah said:
Simple: because society has already defined a set of words which are recognized as for having the purpose of insulting/ abusing/ cursing/ causing offence/ or of being a derogatory nature.

But the "F" word does not always carry a negative value

"You should have seen that f____ing thing fly"

"I love that F___ing girl SO much!"

" The man is a F___ing genius!"

It's like calling a shovel a weapon. Society should call another meeting to amend this recognition. The "F" word should be redefined as having only the potential to hold a negative value.
Click to expand...
 
Mark Harris said:
I know society has norms, I just find blind adherence to a list of "bad words," an extremely silly norm,
Click to expand...

There you go, how did you recognise these norms? when did people vote on these norms? when was the meeting fo these norms held? ;)

Of course by your own words you recognise society has defined norms via natural langauge evolution and community dynamics.

And of course no ones says you have to adhere to them, you could wear gloves on your feet and socks on your hands if you so wish..

you could get offended by the sweet words instead of current derogatory ones if you so choose.
 
Mark Harris said:
My point is that "because society says so," is not a valid reason for, well, anything.
Click to expand...

Well I think "view of the majority" is the basic principle of democracy; if your argument is true then democracy has no legitamcy either.

Of course I would go even further, why do you think rationality is even rational?
 
I have no problem with people using the F word on occasion. What I can't stand are people who say the F word, or other profanity, every other sentence, almost as filler to cover up a limited vocabulary. Shows a lack of education which to me is the real problem.
 
OK heres another twist;

suppose that we follow as per Mark's wishes to re-examine the "worthy-ness" of these current "bad-lists" upon re-examination we formulate better words more "worthy" for the new "bad-list"; let us call this "Marks bad-list", would anything actually change?

nothing,

"A rose by any other name"

Ok how about saying we do away with ALL "bad-lists", in that case you would have to prove the human nature of cursing/ defaming /insulting / etc doesn't exit.

Anhar,

:)
 
Anhar Miah said:
There you go, how did you recognise these norms? when did people vote on these norms? when was the meeting fo these norms held? ;)

Of course by your own words you recognise society has defined norms via natural langauge evolution and community dynamics.
Click to expand...

I never argued against society having norms. I did argue that against adhering to norms without questioning them. There is a norm of wearing shoes. I ask why? Well because they are designed for feet and keep you from stepping on nails. Okay, good answer. There is a norm of not saying the F-word. Why? Er...well...cuz...er...well...everyone says so...I dunno, really...

I don't see why this is so confusing.
 
Anhar Miah said:
Well I think "view of the majority" is the basic principle of democracy; if your argument is true then democracy has no legitamcy either.

Of course I would go even further, why do you think rationality is even rational?
Click to expand...

well I think "view of the majority without examination" is the basic principal of tyranny. ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top