FIREPROOF - The new film from Sherwood Pictures

[GaryinCalifornia]

Kirk Cameron is very religious. I'm assuming that's why he's a part of this project. I could be wrong.

That's the point... I rather get someone who fit the role rather than just casting a Christian actor...

And Jason you may have liked the Left Behind films... but that doesn't mean others did... you'll have to go hear producer Ralph Winter talk about the challenges of making the first Left Behind... no budget... Zondervan at the time was making a $1m a month off those books... but wouldn't put a dime into the first film...

Not until the Passon did a Christian film break the mode... not saying there were not any good films before... just my .02 only on someone finally putting some real bucks behind something...

Now we have Fox Faith... Carmel.. and other companies that see a market that is there...

 

[Michael Anthony Horrigan]

Many people said that about Bella, but it was the most amazing film of the year, beautifuly writen, acted, lite, and shot. it was just a wonderful film.

Haven't seen it. This one looks a little cheesy though. Poorly acted from what I have seen.

The Passion was a fantastic film. I loved Signs as well. :thumbup:
Two very different films of course.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

I guess, to me one problem is the cheese factor. I don't want to say it is there to indoctrinate people. It's more for the crowd that does believe in christ and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm pretty sure what we are talking about is marketability, it's like any film. As I mentioned before, there are many of these films with the same theme and story. Man looses faith in god, stops loving his wife. Something forces man to come to terms with god and invite faith back into his life and learn to love his wife again. Sound familiar? Even the movie I mentioned before "Signs" has this same similar undertone. The difference between that and these films is that these do not have an interesting angle. However, this is my opinion. I'm sure the movie is okay. I do feel though - that Christians or any religious person for that matter can come up with a better storyline. Like say, something that hasn't been done a hundred thousand times. (yes, hollywood has this same problem.) I just feel like it's being made to exploit someones religion to get them to buy a product they wouldn't otherwise buy if they were not religious. That seems like exploitation to me. Of course, you could argue that every film is exploitation of a certain demographic, this one just hits me a lot differently than say... "Barbershop" while it caters to the black demographic it at the same time is largely popular outside it's demographic. (where as tyler perry's movies are basically targeted toward one type of person)

I think when we get to brass tacks here. What I'm really trying to say is that the movies while they could be good, do not deserve to have there message diluted by the idea that you have to be "christian" to "get it".

I'm done, reading way to far into this. I was going to delete the post, but I wrote all that. So you should read it!

That is definately one part of my problem with these films; the cheese. They come across a white bready, cutesy, life is a box of chocolate type stories. -- I also agree as they come across as too much of an advertisment on agenda than art itself. -

In a word ? Propaganda.

These films are generally poorly made (Straight to DVD) and that sucks. Referring back to SIGNS, a total faith film and no one walks away feeling like they had to give 10% to the collection plate.

I just want a real piece of art, no matter the message without an agenda. Feeling preached to is just too much.

but its not about the numbers, with over 80% of Americans being Christian, thats a huge viewing block, and if Holywood would write for that cast for that and shoot for that it would be the biggest film known to man. 80% of all Americans please. so it isn't the numbers keeping good Christian films from being made. if in Sister act Whoopy had said once or twince helpme Jesus, rather than God or lord, or put Jesus in one song Rather than God, it would not have hurt the film in fact it probably would have added a few bucks to the till. but its not about numbers its about hollywood being out right anti Christian. but its Changing, Thank Jesus for that.

J.R. I'm sorry but De Niro coming in under whoopie? make no mistake about it, if they would have dropped the anti Christian portions of the film, it would have been the biggest movie of the year. it wasn't even close to second. and in this day of age, 79mill on a huge hollywood film isn't a hit.

This goes back to making films the way they oughta be made, and not packaging them as a vehicle for the religion.

Look at the film 21 Grams. Most definate not the tame PG film but Benicios character spends the duration of the film absorbed in gods way and gods will. Although he comes across as radical, the message of faith is still there I think.

ON CAPE FEAR; remember, this was 1991; 17 years ago. It was the Number 1 film when it opended. It was Rated R; always a tough blockbuster number.

The films that outgrossed it that year:

Sleping With the Enemy
Silence of the Lambs
City Slickers
Robin Hood - PoT
Naked Gun 2 1/2
T2
Beauty and the Beast
Adams Family
Hook
Father of the Bride

Al but one of these films are standard popcorn PG-13 nonsense. (Well, T2 isn't nonsense)

-

From the Forum Guidelines:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/announcement.php?f=81

Short version from "The Eight P's":
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=98521

we aren't really talking religion, we're talking about Hollywood's views on one group of people who happen to be Christian, but no one here is debating whether Christianity or Islam or any other religion in the way, or not the way. we are talking about a certain type of film on a film forum.

Jason is correct.


Everything is under control Simon. You do not have to participate in this thread if it bothers you. We are discussing religion and marketing and it's role in Hollywood and it is being closely monitored.

 

[Jason Miller]

Well, from you post above:

You've got an offensive post right there.

What about this one?


That clearly is a message on the topic of religion.

I'm just sayin'. The forum guidelines are there for a reason. Some people are always offended. It's a slippery road. Like discussing Michael Moore films.

well as to the first remark, my opinion on hollywoods views should not offend anyone, nor should my opinion on who or what is to thank for it changing, just as your opinions of film, the filmmaking world, and what motivates hollywood doesnt offend me.

stating the fact that over 80% of Americans are Christian is no more a statment of religion, than stating that over 20% of americans are African Americans, its a dimographic. people like to watch films and tv shows the can relate to, the demographic is that 80% of Americans are Christian, there for the numbers say that is someone would make a well made Chistian film, it would be huge. take Passion for example, it was made out of hollywood, and it was huge. because of that 80%. not to mention world wide, central america, Itally some other parts of Eurupe like Ireland.

Demographics are used everyday to make films, action films, Males 13 to 35, "chick flicks", Movies are made for the African American Community, for the Mexican Americans, you name it, there is a group out there, there are films made for them in hollywood, except Christians. Christ has become taboo subject in filmmaking today.


the guidlines also say no politics, Many of the people on this forum worked cameras at the DNC and RNC, so them talking about those jobs are just as political as this topic is Religious.

there are some films that can't be talked about without religion or politics or race, being brought up. anything by Moore, or with this new movie coming out, anything about moore lol, Passion, Fireproof, Do the right thing, Mr smith goes to washington, the list is countless.

 

[Jason Miller]

Im not talking about packaging a film in religion, i'm talking about making a film where Christianity is respected.
Signs was an awesome films, I loved it, it reafirmed my faith, and it didn't sell me a product other than the film itself which I enjoyed. and i agree the pretty much every story that can be told has already been told, change the subject matter, acting production, and just as in Hollywoord you have a new film.

and you're right about the Cheese factor in Christian Films. The Christian film industry is low budget, indi, film making. and while some low budget indi films are great most have some form of cheese or another.

my point isn't about Christian films, made in the Christian film industry. my point is Hollywood and there not only unwillingness to put the money talent and effort into making a film that shows Christians and Christ in a good light. in hollywood, the Christians are either Killers, "cape Feer, Boondock saints" or they are good christians that can't mention Christ. Sister Act, 7th heaven, highway to heaven, hell town,

if you have talent and you deside to put that talent into a Christian film, you need to be prepared to be an outcast,because Hollywood will never let you back into the "fold" In todays age its easier for a porn actor or actress to become a mainstream hollywood talent, then it is for their Christian film counterpart.

 

[Evan S]

These films are generally poorly made (Straight to DVD) and that sucks. Referring back to SIGNS, a total faith film and no one walks away feeling like they had to give 10% to the collection plate.

I just want a real piece of art, no matter the message without an agenda. Feeling preached to is just too much.

I don't think the makers of this film in particular we're trying to make a propaganda film. Just that, if the trailer is any indication the 3rd act of the film will have it totally rapped up in the will of god and miracles. Something like Kirk Cameron pulling a baby from a burning building and eveyone tells him, "we don't know how you did it! your oxygen cut off, blah blah blah." and he says, " It was the will of god."
It just seems like a huge let down after all the work the character does in any of these films seems pointless, like they are a pawn and don't take any responsibility for themselves. Maybe, I'm wrong. From a story stand point you can disagree because it is the message of the films, but sometimes LESS IS MORE. You can give a lot more to the film by being subtle and have silence be golden, by letting the audience fill in the blanks themselves. Whatever the theme may be, having faith or what have you. Let the audience relate it to themselves. So we are not being forced into the filmmakers interpretation, or ideology. It's not really fair in a sense to other viewers. Like I said however it isn't really meant for them.


Which leads me to this.

stating the fact that over 80% of Americans are Christian is no more a statment of religion, than stating that over 20% of americans are African Americans, its a dimographic. people like to watch films and tv shows the can relate to, the demographic is that 80% of Americans are Christian, there for the numbers say that is someone would make a well made Chistian film, it would be huge. take Passion for example, it was made out of hollywood, and it was huge. because of that 80%. not to mention world wide, central america, Itally some other parts of Eurupe like Ireland.

I can't honestly think of a film off the top of my head, besides passion of the Christ, that has been a huge hit at B.O. or on DVD. I really can't. I don't know if people want to watch any of these films. Because, they look like a pile of dreck. I just want the film maker to transcend above these problems and do what is best for their art, not their religion. You can have a good film and not constantly reference the bible. Show us, don't tell us. I think it would have more impact if they said it visually. It makes the audience feel smarter when they make the connection instead of having it verbally crammed down their throat. That's why it feels preachy, because it is!
Treating your very mature, very understanding audience like children seems like a shame. Religious people can be some of the smartest people in this world, and when it circles back around the film feels like it's even alienating them. They can't understand why they need to be preached to - because they are already the demographic!

 

[GaryinCalifornia]

Something like Kirk Cameron pulling a baby from a burning building and eveyone tells him, "we don't know how you did it! your oxygen cut off, blah blah blah." and he says, " It was the will of god."

But see it comes from what you believe in.... myself I was pulled from a burning building as a child and my brother busted through a door that was nailed shut...

The firemen when they arrived wondered how a 8 year old boy could have done it...

So will of God or just super-natural strength at that moment....

Now we won't go into why the fire got started in the first place... : ) or it wasn't me : )

 

[Jason Miller]

I can't honestly think of a film off the top of my head, besides passion of the Christ, that has been a huge hit at B.O. or on DVD. I really can't.

That's because Passion is the only one that has been made with a hollywood budget, and talent both on screen and behind screen.

This film has been made many time with the low budget cheese spoken about here and seen by few.

this is do to one reason and one reason only hollywood doesnt allow these films to be made inside the Hollywood machine. There are many film makers out there in hollywood as well as actors who are Christian who are "hidding" do to fear of being ousted.

we've used two films over and over again as eamples Sister act and Signs both films that put faith in God in a good light, Both films with Christian Themes, (Catholic) both films never once use the words Jesus or Christ in the script. and it is not out of fear that saying thank Jesus rather than thank the Lord or thank God would hurt the BO take, it would hurt the futures of the filmmakers and actors inside hollywood.

and I agree people don't want to go to the movies to be preached at. they want to escape. Passion didn't preach, it let us escape our lives and live an event in history, it was a horrible event, but so was Schindler's List. the point is we were not preached at.

you can have Chirstian subject matter, you can have Christ in a good light without it being preachy

another film Constantine another film about Christianity, that never mentions Christ. except when comparing him to the son of the devel. Why? it isn't BO worries. so why? Christians interact with God thourgh Chirst, 80% of americans are Christians, so 80% of Americans interact with Christ every day, 80% of americans have Christ in their lives, so why ignore Him in hollywood films? even the films like Sister act and Signs that are about Him.

why not make a film about a historical Christian who have risked there lives to help people, why not make a prolife film in hollywood, look at Bella and Juno, both proved it would be well recieved at the BO, but hollywood doesnt do it because of one reason, they want Chirst out of America. they want all film, all art all politics to be secular.

 

[Evan S]

I don't know, I'm Jewish.
ha, so. also to mention most of Hollywood is probably Jewish or homosexual. So, I don't think they necessarily want to make films about christ. Although, I do like to write religious themes into my story. It's an important part of a lot of peoples lives, but religion should be private.

 

[J.R. Hudson]

The Passion was funded with Mel's own cash OUTSIDE of the studio system wasn't it ?

Production budget: $25,000,000
Prints and advertising budget: $10,000,000
Domestic gross: $370,800,000
Worldwide gross: $610,000,000

25 Mill is not that much of a big deal in Hollywood.

-

And Jason ? I'm with you. I'd love to see stories from The Bible brought to life; done right, with a gnarly cast and budget.

Think LORD OF THE RINGS but waaaaaaay cooler.

I'm telling you; I'd love to see a BIBLE TRILOGY

 

[Evan S]

I would watch it.

 

[KyleProhaska]

Any film made from the Bible done as close to the Bible & History as possible would be R or even X rated most of the time. Most people that don't read it don't know anything about what's inside. Aside from teachings and solid educational content, the Bible is one of the most violent things ever written. Lots of things that are in that book would be almost unwatchable on film. It would be interesting to see things done right. Look at Passion, some found it to be burdening to see a crucifixion as close to the real thing as possible...imagine it as it was....yuck.

I saw this at a prescreening, OK film...ability to be an outreach tool for the Christian community....MONUMENTAL. I'll be seeing this a time or two strictly for supporting if nothing else.

 

[Evan S]

If they made a film based on the bible it'd be PG-13 tops. It would probably be three films clocking in at 7.5 hours, and would be epic and action filled. I guarantee they would screw it up. I've never read the bible to be honest. I probably should one day. but eh.

 

[Hawk Teflon]

If they made a film based on the bible it'd be PG-13 tops. It would probably be three films clocking in at 7.5 hours, and would be epic and action filled. I guarantee they would screw it up. I've never read the bible to be honest. I probably should one day. but eh.

I disagree! Image a simple children's story like David and Goliath. Now imagine that stone sinking into Goliath's head. Not too bad. NOW imagine David taking his sword, and sawing Goliath's head off to parade it through the town. What about these events / stories:

Numerous people murdered
Lot and his daughters
David, Uriah
Rahab
Gideon
David's Mighty Men
The death of the Disciples
Revelation

There's no way it could be portrayed correctly with a PG13 rating.

In the Bible, we read, "and they crucified him." That's all that we read that happened. What the crucifixion meant was made a little more clear in the Passion. Four small words never came more to life for me.

 

[KyleProhaska]

Yep, I agree. Thats just a few of the very violent, torturous, bloody, incredible, surreal, etc. things found in that book. To display it correctly would be to create something mind blowingly thought provoking, shocking, disgusting, terrifying, and in the end....wonderful.

I can't even imagine it really...take the reality that was the Passion and lay it upon all the stories of the Bible. PHEW.

There's a reason older films like The Ten Commandments were so EPIC, because the event portrayed WAS EPIC.

 

[spidey]

Many people said that about Bella, but it was the most amazing film of the year, beautifuly writen, acted, lite, and shot. it was just a wonderful film.

Yeah but bella was good. this is hallmark type stuff.

 

[spidey]

The Passion was funded with Mel's own cash OUTSIDE of the studio system wasn't it ?

Production budget: $25,000,000
Prints and advertising budget: $10,000,000
Domestic gross: $370,800,000
Worldwide gross: $610,000,000

25 Mill is not that much of a big deal in Hollywood.

-

And Jason ? I'm with you. I'd love to see stories from The Bible brought to life; done right, with a gnarly cast and budget.

Think LORD OF THE RINGS but waaaaaaay cooler.

I'm telling you; I'd love to see a BIBLE TRILOGY

never gonna happen unless you got a some high profile behind it. like lol heres on for you

The Bible
Directed by Steven Speilberg.

Whoa. lol imagine that movie.granted he's a jew and all kidding aside but imagine like high profile director make a film about it.

 

[spidey]

ah revelations, by clint eastwood

 

[Brandon Rice]

If Fireproof does well, it shows the Christian genre as a viable moneymaker and that is huge...

I'm hoping, and expecting Fireproof to do very good numbers this weekend... I'll be attending the premiere in Hollywood on Thursday.... looking forward to chatting with the Kendricks for the first time, it'll be great to meet them, I know they really have a heart behind their films, and it shows through.

 

[Brandon Rice]

I will say watching the trailer for No Greater Love and Fireproof - it almost seems beat for beat the same movie. (except he is not a fireman).

Interesting enough, they are VERY different films.... some similarities but quite different... in fact, the director/writer of Fireproof has seen a screener of NGL...and the response was incredibly favorable.

I won't discuss the differences however, and I'll let you check them both out sometime...