Cine-gamma on or off? Using redrock m2 settings help. Anything to do with cineon?

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Well-known member
Hey guys,

I wanted to know why it is that some people recommend to turn off the cinegamma settings, and what should you set them to instead of cinegamma because you cant just turn cinegamma off, you must select something else. Does these cinegamma settings allow you to treat your files as cineon files?

FYI,

I am shooting a feature film, a drama, with nikkon lenses on the m2 lens adapter.

So what settings would you guys use regarding the cinegamma or other settings?

To confirm, what does the cinegamma options do specially anyways, do they really add gamma as in film or cineon files, where you can lower or raise the images brightness (gamma) without affecting quality at all? Or is it just a crappy filter the hvx200 put on there to immitate a quick film look which can be acheived in post without affecting light quality on set?
 
nowt to do with cineon files.

think of it more like the print LUT that's been applied to the cineon file, so 6 stops of data as apposed to the 12 stops of the Cineon neg.

And the Cinegamma certainly isn't a crappy filter, instead in very much mimics the gamma (or 'S' /log curve) of film.

Otherwise known as the 'pana mojo'.

do some tests, and trust what your eyes tell you.
 
But, if you select the cine-gamma mode, can you tweak it in post? I heard you lose a lot of info with the cine-gamma, so if you want to create your own film look, your limited because you have limited info,

I want to get the most info as I can out of the camera, and I think the cine-gamma burn in a certain film look, that when I get to post, If i want to create a different look, I cant,

Do I sound crazy, or does the cine-gamma limit what you can do in post due to burning in a certain look on the fly?
 
course you can tweak it in post.
F6 Cinegamma gives you the greatest dynamic range from the camera (also the noisiest).
It will also give you the greatest latitude to work with in post.

Remember, this is 8-bit video, so don't clip your whites if you want to grade them in any way.
As it's 8-bit there's not enough colour info to record 'flat', as per a cineon scan, or RedRAW.

Do some tests.
 
"F6 Cinegamma gives you the greatest dynamic range from the camera (also the noisiest)"

Really, it will give me more grain and noise? I dont like that.

"Remember, this is 8-bit video, so don't clip your whites if you want to grade them in any way.
As it's 8-bit there's not enough colour info to record 'flat', as per a cineon scan, or RedRAW."

So it wont allow me to blow out my whites or shoot in low light and be able to retrieve info in post as in cineon files from film correct? If I blow them out, regardless of being in cine-gamma mode, then they are blown out and im skrewed correct?
 
"F6 Cinegamma gives you the greatest dynamic range from the camera (also the noisiest)"
>>Really, it will give me more grain and noise? I dont like that.

'Noisiest' is a relative term. Test, test and see what you like.
If you're used to shooting film, (which your questions suggest you are)
then you'll be used to grain anyway. What's the problem?


I'm working with Cineon scans for a feature film at the moment in Shake. There's more noise (grain) in them than my HVX image.

"Remember, this is 8-bit video, so don't clip your whites if you want to grade them in any way.
As it's 8-bit there's not enough colour info to record 'flat', as per a cineon scan, or RedRAW."


>>So it wont allow me to blow out my whites or shoot in low light and be able to
>>retrieve info in post as in cineon files from film correct? If I blow them out,
>>regardless of being in cine-gamma mode, then they are blown out and im skrewed
>>correct?


That's exactly right.

As I said before, you are shooting the equivalent of a 'film print' when you use the HVX, not a 'film neg' with the extra dynamic range, as per a Cineon scan.

hence, expose it properly and you'll get a lovely image. You can then grade that quite heavily in post too, but you won't be able to throw it around like a Cineon scan.

Clip your whites, and crunch your blacks, and they're gone. This is 8-bit video.


If this is a huge problem for you then I suggest you change your kit and shoot on film, or hire a RED
 
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"F6 Cinegamma gives you the greatest dynamic range from the camera (also the noisiest)"

Can I ask your personal opinion, I know this will vary for everyone.

But for you, if you were going to shoot a feature film with this camera with nikkon lenses on the m2, and wanted to get into 2000+ theatres, and wanted the maximum film look, but not a cheesy film filter look (there is a big difference), then, what would you do, would you personally use ginegamma settings?

Your a compositor, great! Me too, that is why I thought I should always add my grain in post, because I can tweak it to my desire, and not embedd it in the actual footage if i use the cinegamma settings.

Just to confirm, these are the cinegamma settings if you go under menu-recording setup- and there are 2 different categories which give you these cinegamma options correct?
 
I always shoot F5 CineV gamma with B-press for lowest noise, and for a feature I would do the same.
I also take my master pedestal down to about -4, and detail coring up to about +2.
I'm choosing a target grade in camera as I shoot with heavier blacks by doing this, but I get the lowest possible noise.

On an HVX200A I would probably shoot F6 CineD gamma for the extra dynamic range, as it's got less noise as a camera than my HVX200.

The difference is I would use my Canon primes with my SGPro :)

It's all about learning to 'print' in camera I guess, ie expose within the dynamic range the camera gives me, knowing that clipped blacks and whites are gone.

Just imagine you're shooting slide film instead of neg.
That's the kind of discipline you need when shooting and exposing with this camera.


Are you a Shaker, Nuke, Fusion or AE?

(right now I'm a very tired compositor on a deadline, and it's 3.30 in the morning, I'm totally knackered and off to bed, so goodnight and goodluck)
 
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Sweet

Sweet

I use ae and shake, and also am learning flame at my job when its not in use, so thats cool.

But yeah, thanks for those suggestions I will definitely give them a try during testing.

Yeah im beat too, well tomorrow is my first day of shooting, wish me luck, im off to do some last minute tests!
 
Clint, how did the shoot go?

And Flor!an, lovely images. Did you shoot with the HVX200 or 200A, and is that the bare camera with no adaptor?
 
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