HPX-500 for Live Production / Broadcast

Kit Hannah

Kit Hannah

Veteran
Alright folks. Hopefully this can become a sticky.

Many people over the past few months have been interested in the viability of using the HPX-500 Series of cameras for live production / event production. This means running a multi-cam shoot to a switcher, switching a show live to broadcast or to tape, or even just for video screens. This can be done relatively easy, especially if you have prior OB Truck (Outsie Broadcast Truck) experience, you know, the TV studios on wheels....

If you have anything to add specifically in regards to utilizing the 500 for live broadcast only, equipment associated with it, techniques, etc, please feel free to post. Please don't get too off topic in this thread as I feel it is an important subject - one which many people are interested in.

Soooo.... Here we go. I will post first...
 
If you are looking to multicam the HPX, I have looked into this quite extensively. Much of it depends on if you want to run HD or SD, that's where most of the cost varies. So here are the options that I have come up with:

Option #1.
The least expensive option is going with a system from Telemetrics or TVPROGEAR. What these systems do is use a modulation device to send different components over a single coax cable (or triax or fiber, but more money). The single coax contains your video, audio, power, tally, intercom, genlock, and is able to have control of WB and shading too. These systems are pretty much identical to the Camplex systems, but they are much less expensive. They use an attached box to the back of your camera and everything is fed into it. It transmits everything over a single coax for SD, and depending on the system, a second coax / fiber for HD (so you would have 2 cables running side by side). It goes to a ccu type device and you can plug in one of their proprietary remotes for your shading and WB. We're getting a new system in the next few weeks and we will most likely go with something like this.

Option #2.
The next option is to buil a system around the AJ-RC10G remote that was specifically made for the HPX line of cameras. Although a nice remote, you'll have to run multiple cables including a 10pin data cable. They say that it's only good for up to 150m, but I believe that is a limitation of the power it provides and you could have a seperate power supply and set it a bit higher to compensate for the voltage loss. The remote is VERY pricey compared to say a Hitachi paint box, and really doesn't offer many extra features other than P2 playback remotely, but in a live setting you will most likely have a seperate replay system and not need to replay things from the camera. The RC10G remote comes in at about $3500 each street.

Now, one of the people I was actually able to track down was the head designer of that remote. He mentioned that in theory, with a seperate constant power supply, you could set up the remote on a "switch", maybe a VGA switch or something of the sort so that you don't have to buy 3-6 of them for a live setting. They are a bit bulkier than a standard paint box, but if you could have one to control all of your cameras, that could be pretty nifty. He mentioned that if the remote is unplugged but you still have power running to the cameras, the settings will stay and when the remote is switched to each camera, it's an instantaneous switch. Again, in "theory".

This is pretty much what the $3k 25meter HPX Cable from spec-comm would be utilized for, but at 3 grand, that's an outrageous price to pay. I could put together a 500-1000 foot set of cables that does the same thing for less money than that. It could even be custom made and put on some sort of large multi pin connection so everything goes through a single connector.

Also remember though, the longer the cable run for your video, the further apart the timing of the signal bcomes and eventually will start to break up (on copper, not fiber). If running anything further than a couple hundred feet, you'll need to get some sort of re-timing device, which ae pretty common. If you are planning on doing this, look at the Ross Video platform of "Opengear" which are modular rack frames that fit processing cards in to perform various tasks for video and audio, including timing, A>D, D>A, amplifiers, splitters, converters, etc. Very, very cool stuff. And the SD stuff is supprisingly affordable (HD is available). We'll be using this system in place of a router to perform all of our processing and routing.

Option #3.
Camplex. Same as above, but much more expensive.


Overall, I would recommend going with a modulated over coax system for ease of use and price. I believe you'll find that getting into systems like that will save a considerable amount of time and money. We are going with systems, I believe from TVPROGEAR because they have the most cost effective solution that handles everything we need for now. Our system is being built around the 500's cause we love the cameras so much, and it allows us to use them for production work outside of a live broadcast rather than having seperate cameras to serve different purposes. The SD on the 500's looks just as good as pretty much any other camera on the market, so why the heck not.
 
Oh, and I don't think the Panasonic switchers are the way to go, FYI. They don't offer really enough inputs to do much with other than small corporate work. Look at the Ross Synergy 100, which has 16 channels and can be upgraded to HD for a nominal fee at a later date w/o any other equipment to buy. They simply give you a "code" to upgrade the unit in the system menus (I know, kinda weird). That switcher will run you about $12k - $15k to start, but it's much more professional than most.

For-A Switchers have served many people in the broadcast markets well, They too have a series of portable switchers that have some decent features.

I love how the Grass Valley Indigo Switcher looks, but it just seems so overpriced for the features it has.

And if you want to get really serious, like you have $60k+ to spend, the Ross Vision MD line is phenomenal, absolutely beautiful. Very innovative, slick etc. etc. etc.
 
Kit

Can you post a link to TVPROGEAR's solution? I have looked on their web site and can't find it.

What made you choose the TVPROGEAR over Telemetrics? From the looks of it the telemetrics is a solid looking system. Almost exactly like Camplex.

What generic Paint boxes will you be using? Are we 100% sure that these will work with no problems?

As I have said before I am trying to get into doing highschool football, corporate, and some concert entertainment with this type of system. I hope to one day have the whole system based around 500's, but for now I will have to use a couple of DVX100's and a 500.

Looking at telemetrics system I think it would be the better fit for me right now. I can get some of the boxes that the 100's would mount on top of and then I could convert them to work with 500's or sell them and by new boxes for the 500 at a later date.

As far as switchers go I totally agree about Panasonic switchers. Not only do they not offer enough flexibility with inputs they also introduce a time delay that would kill your production value for IMAG. Especially when you start talking HD 24P.

I am a fan of Echolab switchers as well as Ross and For-A. I have used one of the discontinued echolab switchers for 2 years now and have never had any switcher related issues out of it. It is pretty solid.

http://www.echolab.com/pages/overture1_md.html

I was given a quote of around $18k on that switcher for 8 in and 4 out. Somewhat pricey, but like I said they are built like tanks.
 
ef03 said:
Kit

Can you post a link to TVPROGEAR's solution? I have looked on their web site and can't find it.
Click to expand...

When I was talking to one of their sales associates, he was telling me about it and who was using the systems. I was pretty impressed. He said many people were going to them over Camplex. I couldn't find a link either.

ef03 said:
What made you choose the TVPROGEAR over Telemetrics? From the looks of it the telemetrics is a solid looking system. Almost exactly like Camplex.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm not sure "EXACTLY" what the price was, but I believe telemetrics was a bit more expensive. They may have been closer to $6k each. But the biggest reason I chose against going the other route was because of the way that I was treated at Telemetrics. I spoke with one gentelman on a Thursday, who was nice and quoted me prices. The next day, I went to order them, they said the guy was going to be out and quoted me a totally different price. He wouldn't call the original guy, wouldn't budge. Then i asked about the high definition systems and they were just all over the map. nobody knew how much they cost. Got tired of the runaround.

ef03 said:
What generic Paint boxes will you be using? Are we 100% sure that these will work with no problems?
Click to expand...

They will be fine - they were designed to work with their system.

ef03 said:
I am a fan of Echolab switchers as well as Ross and For-A. I have used one of the discontinued echolab switchers for 2 years now and have never had any switcher related issues out of it. It is pretty solid.

http://www.echolab.com/pages/overture1_md.html

I was given a quote of around $18k on that switcher for 8 in and 4 out. Somewhat pricey, but like I said they are built like tanks.
Click to expand...

I too got some quotes on the Echolab, but if you are looking to expand and do certain things, you're going to find that 8 inputs is going to leave you well short. I would definitely look at a 12 to 16 channel solution if you plan to do sports or other productions in the future. We used an older Echolab too without fail (DV5?) for awhile and it worked out nicely.

But you look like you are on the right track for sure. Just don't forget about things like communications, audio, etc. They often get overlooked.
 
The Echolab switchers are all modular. You can add inputs and ouputs in banks of four.

That switcher should easily be able to do 12 inputs.

So the paint boxes are provided by Tvprogear as part of the system? If so they do have a sweet deal.

Audio is under control. I will be using Mackie Onyx boards. I want to do it right so I can pull audio off of shotgun mics on the cameras so you get ambient sound from the camera that is on air. So I am still thinking about audio snakes and routing.

I haven't really gotten into comm systems yet. I haven't forgotten about them though. They honestly scare me. Not because the complexity of them, but the price.

It would be nice to be able to get a small matrix system. A mini version of what we would have in a full size truck, but it's not going to happen for a reasonable price. So I will settle for a nice dual channel system.

Forgive any spelling errors and for not quoting you to make this more organized. I am on my iPhone and it's late. I will edit and fix it tomorrow.
 
I hear that NMT, which has a ton of trucks, is switching out all of their Matrix systems and has some used gear available. I think that's the route we're going to go. They have a bunch of it.

You can get your NAT sound from shotguns on your ameras sent back through the camplex systems and output to your board. If you need more than that, getting what they call DT12 cables are what they use on trucks, not necessarily straight audio snakes but those can be utilized too. It's just a different type of snake.
 
I looked on their website and other than a couple of cameras and lenses they don't have any equipment listed. Maybe they haven't actually pulled them yet?

Yeah DT12 cables are sweet. They are the same thing as a snake, but they use one locking connector instead of 12 or 24 individual XLR connectors. You could run a couple of DT12 hookups out of your flightback to a strategic position at the venue and then run traditional mic cables from those central spots.

The easiest way to get nat sound is going to be off camera through the Camplex or TVPROGEAR system though.

A little off topic, but NMT has a pretty sweet SD truck for sale. It is analog, but it still has some really nice gear in it. They want $395k for it. I don't think it is a bad deal though because it is ready to role. Comes with 10 Ikegami cameras and Fuji Lenses and 2 POV cameras. EVS replays and slow mo machines. etc...
 
Typically DT12 ables just have fan-outs at each end. Most audio snakes have a fan-out at one end and a box at the other. You can easily get multi-core audio snakes, but DT12's work great for broadcast because you typically don't need a 40 channel snake running places.

If you cann NMT, I know they do have some more gear available than what's on their website. Most of the OB truck companies are always looking to upgrade gear. The NMT truck listed on their website is ok, kind of a high price if you ask me, but it's not bad. I just know that NMT is known for not taking the best care of their gear.

Logistically, having a 53 foot trailer and tractor is not the best way to go if you are not doing a lot of stuff with it. You have to have someone drive it, it has to be stored, maintained, etc. Thy get to be pretty heavy, especially with all of that triax on board, usually 5000+ ft. Most trucks are also set up for a full crew and they need the whole crew to operate it efficiently. So when you get into a case where maybe you're just doing a 3 camera shoot, it becomes quite expensive to have the crew to operate it. Our truck is going to feature some consolidated features, such as the technical director doing shading, the replay guy maybe doing some graphics, etc. We're trying to make it so maybe there is only 4-5 people needed in the truck to operate it efficiently and cut down on labor costs. It will be a 24-30 foot toter conversion straight truck.

We're also putting our own sattelite uplink on our truck so that we don't have to pay an additional truck to do it. It gets quite expensive to have a full uplink truck along side of the production truck to do the uplink. It will save us a considerable amount of money producing our 200+ hockey, baseball and soccer games with our own sat equipment. Should pay for itself in the first 50 - 75 games or so.
 
So did we ever get more info on TVProGears solution or pictures of it?

I am still curious to see exactly what they are offering in terms of SD and HD, but I still can't find anything on their web page.

Not exactly on a HPX500 live production note, but a live production note. I have been working at one of the fastest growing churches in the country the past few weeks and they are using a machine called a Spyder. It is built by Vista systems and it is sweet.

You can drive multiple monitors off of it using DVI, SDI, etc. We are driving three monitors off of it. Two side screen monitors that mostly display IMAG off of live camera shots and some pre recorded videos. The third screen is in the center and takes three projectors to run it. It displays song lyrics and sermon notes that are being generated in ProPresenter.

What the spyder lets us do is control all inputs and outputs to the three screens from one central location. You could turn around and route the IMAG to the center screen. Or you could route it to the center screen, but make it display three copies of it to keep it from stretching.

It is almost endless with what you can do as far as video routing goes with it. It is all drag and drop too. So if I wanted to span the IMAG accross the center screen and display it three times I would just drag that video source over the center screen icon and let it go where I wanted it to display at.

Once you build your service playlist all you have to do is hit the space bar at the transition points to move forward. If you need to go back you click on the button that you need to go to and it does the rest.

From what I have read the Spyder has been around in the news world for a little while on sets of MSNBC, CNN, and all the other news sets that use monitors in the background.

It is a pretty nifty machine if you are going to be doing ANY kind of IMAG that will change sources at all.
 
Brian Leid said:
I just checked my notes from NAB. Their system with 4 cameras was $220,000.
Might as well buy a truck.
Click to expand...

Seriously. And what's even more unimpressive is the gear that they are giving you for that $220,000. JVC Cameras? I understand they are portable, but in a live broadcast environment, you need full 2/3" chips, unless you are ALWAYS in ideal lighting conditions.

Our flypack that we designed cost half this and utlized 5 HPX500's. People trying to make money sometimes get TOO greedy.
 
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