Any news on good 10-bit recording alternative?

C

chagchag

Well-known member
So with our beautiful HD SDI-outs on our beautiful EX 1's and 3's, is there any news on good alternatives for recording 10-bit fotage that is editable and practical while shooting?

I love my EX1 more and more, and on many shoots it could eliminate the need for RED-rental if only I could get around that ugly 8-bit banding.

To me 10 bit is a bigger plus than 422.
 
Convergant Design FlashXDR and nanoFlash is exactly what you are looking for.

Google is your friend.
 
Yes, I know....

Are there any alternatives to the rather clumsy Macbook+AJA I/O-RAID+Apple Prores combo?
 
Barry_Green said:
No, because those are 8-bit recorders.
Click to expand...

From their web site for FlashXDR

Outstanding Audio / Video Quality​
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High Quality Sony MPEG2 CODEC​

• ​
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4X to 6X the Data-Rate of HDV​

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MPEG2 4:2:2 Full-Raster (1920 x 1080)​

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Long-GOP up to 100 Mbps, I-Frame up to 160 Mbps​

•​
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16/24-Bit Uncompressed Audio​

• Uncompressed 8/10-bit 4:2:2 Option (Fall 2008)
Notice that last line?

Unfortunately yes, the nanoFlash is 8bit only, my bad (but I knew there was a 10bit capability in there somewhere).
 
The FlashXDR is the only 10bit uncompressed and affordable option I know of. But it's still in alpha testing, and the 10bit uncompressed feature is still a future upgrade option at extra cost that has not yet had a specific date put on it. It's only 10bit in uncompressed, all MPEG2 is 8bit.
 
Cineform is also talking about a 10-Bit recording solution, but right now it's just dream-ware . Their website doesn't even begin to say when it may hit the market. I do think the Cineform version may be a good one. $2K in price and records to the Cinceform codec directly in 10Bit. From using Cineform to edit my current movie, 1920x1080 24p is about 28 to 34GB per hour. The only problem that you get is 4:2:2 sampling which I did some tests on in the beginning. When it comes to humans and no major light jumps (a person in front of a window) the codec does awesome.
 
chagchag said:
So with our beautiful HD SDI-outs on our beautiful EX 1's and 3's, is there any news on good alternatives for recording 10-bit fotage that is editable and practical while shooting?

I love my EX1 more and more, and on many shoots it could eliminate the need for RED-rental if only I could get around that ugly 8-bit banding.

To me 10 bit is a bigger plus than 422.
Click to expand...
buy a P2 mobile from Panasonic
 
chagchag said:
So with our beautiful HD SDI-outs on our beautiful EX 1's and 3's, is there any news on good alternatives for recording 10-bit fotage that is editable and practical while shooting?

I love my EX1 more and more, and on many shoots it could eliminate the need for RED-rental if only I could get around that ugly 8-bit banding.

To me 10 bit is a bigger plus than 422.
Click to expand...
buy the Panasonic AJ-HPM110 Mobile P2 HD Recorder/Player with DVCPRO® HD/50/25 and Available AVC-Intra Formats
 
I doubt that will mount on a cold shoe, nor does it do uncompressed, and it would cost four times as much as an FlashXDR. Not very practical.
 
Nothing that does 10bit fits on the hot shoe. The alternatives are the previously mentioned plus the AJA IO HD, Codex, S2, or a workstation set up to capture from HD SDI to some suitalbe codec. If your projects are scripted type of things or TC Commercials then a cabled solution would work but for Doc type of work then nothing will work, maybe with the exception of the NanoFlash it is really small but is still 8bit MPG 2.

Cineform had a great idea but it is no longer on their site, a small touchscreen capture device that could record to CF cards or hard drive. The price they were aiming for was $2k but I guess it didn't work out. Even at $5k it would have been a great low cost solution since the Wafian recorders cost $15-20K.
 
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The FlashXDR should mount pretty well to the rear shoe of the EX3 (where the 60GB HDD mounts) quite well. It is quite a large device (but not heavy) from my reading.

I can't see a particulary good way to mount it to an EX1 though but considering how long a HD-SDI cable can run it isn't the end of the world.

I can imaging using a FlashXDR or nanoFlash per camear as a remote recorder at a stage production where one person mans each camera (or unmanned) running HD-SDI back to nano's where one person manages all the media and hot swapping etc. You could do it with the Sony SxS deck but its basically the same price and then you need all the SxS media instead of CF (you would only have up to 35Mbps too). Sorry, getting off track now...
 
I saw the Flash XDR at NAB and it's pretty big for an on camera device, 5 in x 6 in x 1.7 in plus room for connectors. For on camera the NanoFlash is more managable especially on the EX1. Consider the Flash XDR larger than a AntonBauer Brick. That won't go on the hotshoe. You could have a case made that could go on your belt for really portable use. SxS and P2 media held great promise for solid state recording but the media is just too expensive, wildly overpriced and not really coming down either. All I can figure is greed because it doesn't really come close in manufacturing cost.
 
Can´t wait till they come out with this one:

CineForm%20Recorder_800.jpg


Cineform says that they try to get it done till the end of the year.

I hope it get´s a HD-SDI in or at least component.
In the moment it got only HDMI (actualy in the moment it got nothing cause it is still in design stage). But it would be a pity to have to go throu an other converter box first just because your camera has no HDMI out.

But even than this would be my favourite device. Recording in pure Cineform quality would be a huge step over DVCproHD.

Frank
 
Can you please tell me what 10bit actually means ? Does it mean the in camera chip of the EX1 "samples" the information at 8 bit or something like that ?

Can the EX1 ouput 1080 24p signal through it's SDI port? If it is only 1080i it's not such a big deal in my opinion.
 
Its the number of bits used to encode each colour value in a pixel (eg red, or green or blue in RGB or each of the three samples in YCrCb etc). The more bits the more accurate the encoded value but it is also a case of diminishing returns. 8bits is pretty good but 10bits is a definite improvement. DSLRs are 12bit in RAW moving to 14bit but 14bit is showing only an extremely small (almost irrelevant) difference.

Adding bits increases files sizes, data rates and processing power requirements though , so its a trade off...
 
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Just found out that with a firware update the EX1 can send 1080 24p signal through it's SDI port.
 
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