The end of 35mm adapers and hv20s....

I'm going to go out today and play with it some more. I have a dolly and track in my storage unit so I can get a dolly shot. I can also get some different frame rates, what frame rates do you want to see?
I'm also going to print a test chart and shoot with both the old prime, and the 18-105 lens from the kit. Maybe we can see what this thing is resolving. I don't have a CRT but I think I know someone who does so I can shoot that too. If there are anymore requests just let me know.

Joe
 
ando said:
the lack of other details in the manual i think it means what it means
it operates the same as with photo

remember it's not a video camera?

"strange" behaviour may be from autoiso active with who know what shutter speed activation values

we won't know if he doesn't know how dslrs work

and again i thank him for what he does for us. please ask if you need help with setting or other standard photo nikon stuff
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There's literally NOTHING in the book about D-Movie mode and how the camera's normal DSLR functions effect the video footage.

My experience with DSLR's (which at one time was how I earned my living, shooting product photography) has nothing to do with it.
 
danimal84 said:
alright time to chime in after following soon to be 1500 post thread!

ill be getting the D90 tomorrow or sunday i believe. camera store is going to call when it arrives in their shipment tomorrow. then i just have to arrange for it to somehow get from the store to me, you could say im in a somewhat remote location at the moment...

since the announcement i started researching ways to make this workflow better on the post side. basically im kinda bored and want a challenge. i had been thinking of developing stuff for the hv20 workflow such as a better way to achieve pulldown removal for NLE editing and some other stuff but kinda never followed through cause while HV20 can produce amazing images, the whole 35mm adapter workflow kinda dissapointed me after i did a lot of work on one with a hvx setup this past year. it opened doors but still was pretty limited.

now the nikon d90 has aroused my neurons! definately a lot of potential but also already a lot of dissapointments from what kholi has been able to reveal about this cam. but still it is way too soon to throw in the towel. i think a lot can be done to make this cam work better.

the lack of manual control in d-movie is upsetting but this is simply firmware. all the tools are in place but for some reason nikon didnt implement them(maybe just photography dudes who are new to the motion picture side and have yet to learn to think like a cinematographer) so firmware update please? if not i dont think a firmware hack would be that hard, i mean its not trying to add something that its not capable of doing, the camera has full manual control for pics, just need to implement a way for d-movie mode. so ill start working on that and see what it would need to take and but at the moment i think i could at least deliver somehow a firmware hack for manual control in d-movie.

also we need to get someone to test this hdmi output and see how this works. i understand from looking it up that that there are overlayed menus no matter what but that shouldnt be that hard to remove also via a firmware have. the only thing im worried about is what happens to the data from the sensor between the capture on the sensor and the hdmi output, ie will it be something raw or will it be touched by sometype of manipulation. (it is hard for me to believe that it would be a raw output from the sensor after it has been downsampled to 1280x720 but before it has been compressed to mjpeg) but yeah this still could be an option maybe that would be away to get around the pitfalls of mjpeg

whats working for us is that mjpeg which derives from aspects of jpeg which itself has been around for along time compared to newer formats. this means that there has been a ton of development over the years for jpeg ish, including ways to post-optimize a jpeg file/clean up artifacts and compression somewhat. obviously there will never be an amazing elixir to restore original data and recreate the original image because of jpegs lossy nature but i definately know that you can in theory clean up a poorly compressed mjpeg file to be at least a noticeable and worthwhile improvement over the original(ive already started dissecting the data from the random nikon clips posted up this past week to see what it will be capable of) so thats a plus there

now as for the rolling shutter, that is a huge dissapointment but not an end all. i mean kohli said it best, the thing is ways next to nothing compared to say a ex1 with 35 adapter/lens/rails and all setup or a red for that matter so its no surprise that holding the camera alone is useless but there are definately plenty of ways to minimize this through rigs of all sorts and tripods to glidecams to hey, just put it on a shoulder mount and add some weightlifting weights!

i dont know cause i just started looking into the whole rolling shutter stuff tonight if there is anything that can be done on the images on the post side of things but already have read some interesting technical journal articles published from studies in computer science so hopefully ill find something that might help or maybe even ill get one of my random bursts of brilliance to take this whole rolling shutter issure down a path no one else has really tested yet...

so kohli, cant remember if you said or not, but you anyclue what the shutter speed is in any of the shots you uploaded or is the whole d-movie thing mean you dont know what shutter you shoot with?

but if you do what was the shutter speed for those clips as well as iso and aperture too?

anyway i have already been planning and working on this project to clean up mjpeg clips as well as a bunch of other usefull nifty tools that i just want for myself for my workflow but figure a lot of others will benefit too so i might as well share :) plus itll be fun getting feedback, kinda like practice for another project i have been developing privately for the past few years that i would say kind of rivals red but on the post production side(and no its not an NLE, the ones out there are great, i'm just going to fill in where they left off and then some ;)

well to finish this post off, thanks kholi for the work today, definately first place prize for first person to dig into this setup but im going to have to claim first prize for first d90 footage with a pretty rediculously awesome subject for shooting that im positive no one else in all of these dv forums has an option for on a daily basis. oooh this will be fun to mix a sweet new camera and stuff that is equally awesome to shoot it on. (hint: if i get too close i will be eaten)
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I'm pretty much in agreeance with most of what you've said. There's no way I can tell which shutter speed this stuff was at other than by eye. I've gotten it to look very smeary/blurry no up to extremely staccato and "fast".

But, there's no way (yet that I have seen) to actually control the shutter freely.

I hope Joe might be able to shed some light on that idea. Or Drew or Andro.
 
Joe94 said:
Dan, if you can download my video the shutter was set at 1/60 of a second, the ISO was 1250, and the aperture was at f2.0
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Can you walk outside in broad daylight and do these settings on the fly?

Please test that and tell me if I've just been retarded and manual shutter does work and so does ISO.
 
Joe -- Please post footage of you actually changing the Shutter on the fly. As if you were using an HVX200 or, heck, even the regular DSLR mode. Not challenging you, I really want to know that I'm wrong so that I can begin to like the movie mode a bit more.

On about the Canon 5D: I'll switch over just to use my Contax Zeiss lenses, honestly. Especially if Canon is employing some of it's existing video knowledge into the camera.
 
NEW INFO ON EXPOSURE IN D-MOVIE MODE:

A) Activate EASY EXPOSURE ADJUSTMENT in the Menu

B) Switch back to LV mode after you've selected your Desired F-STOP (Considering you're using an automatic lens, manual won't matter).

C) Hold down the +/- Exposure button and roll the shutter adjustment dial (on the back) toward the left or right. You can adjust exposure in 1/2 or 1/3 increments depending on how you have it setup in the menus. On up to +1.5 for increasing exposure adjustment and down to -5.0 for decreasing.

I found that out right before I passed out in the camera last night.

More to come, and a lit sample as soon as I take back the rental car.
 
Joe94 said:
You put the camera in manual mode, hold down the ISO button and then use the thumb wheel to set your ISO.

I set the shutter on the camera to 1/60. The information on the LCD indicated that the shutter was 1/60 and the ISO was 1250, and it never changed though the duration of the clip.
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I still think you just set still image parameters, so if you were to press the shutter button during the movie, it would take a still image with those settings. Not convinced they relate to the movie mode settings.

Speaking of stills during movie capture, how fast/practical is it?
 
Kholi said:
Joe -- Please post footage of you actually changing the Shutter on the fly. As if you were using an HVX200 or, heck, even the regular DSLR mode.
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I never changed the shutter on the fly. I just set it and locked it down before recording. I'll come back this afternoon hopefully with some good news, and footage.
 
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