i may be a distraction but at least i know how it works
you may just want to hear what you like
The end of 35mm adapers and hv20s....
- Thread starter Hunter Hampton
- Start date
i may be a distraction but at least i know how it works
you may just want to hear what you like
kenn michael
Well-known member
The main issue is that the camera is designed to automatically change exposure, shutter speed and ISO during recording to keep 'consistent' exposure when photographic conditions change. We're trying to get turn as much of the automatic stuff off as possible.
Kholi very much knows how to use a dslr. This is something very new.... and there is not a lot in the manual about using it in a way that the camera wasn't designed for.
Pushing the envelope here. Give him a second please.
Kholi very much knows how to use a dslr. This is something very new.... and there is not a lot in the manual about using it in a way that the camera wasn't designed for.
Pushing the envelope here. Give him a second please.
kenn michael
Well-known member
Please tell us how to use these modes in the D-Movie mode since you've been working with the D90.
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
that's really great, ando. what are you, six? this is a COMMUNITY. not a place for you to throw your ego around expecting us to be grateful for it.
list your custom functions
start with autoiso menu and we'll go from that point
i saw samples with locked seetings on nikon's own website so if they did it it's not "about using it in a way that the camera wasn't designed for."
kenn michael
Well-known member
How has your experience with the D90 been?
Ando, maybe you should do some homework and read the previous postings by Kholi. Because as it has been clearly stated, the video mode is not documented and it DOES NOT WORK like the still mode.
CCD's don't have rolling shutter problems, CMOS sensors do. There is no magic switch to turn that off. It is a hardware thing.
And I am guessing, if you have read the back pages, he knows his dslr. So stay cool.
CCD's don't have rolling shutter problems, CMOS sensors do. There is no magic switch to turn that off. It is a hardware thing.
And I am guessing, if you have read the back pages, he knows his dslr. So stay cool.
I have been playing with mine for a few hours now and here is what I have discovered. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, its late and I've probably have a few too many beers. Fist under the "Custom Settings Menu" I set C1 to "ON" I set C2 "Auto Meter Off Delay" to "5 Min" and I set F4 "Assign AE-L/AF-L Button" to "AE-L (Hold). With those settings when I switch to live view and hit the AE-L button it stays locked for the duration of my recording so there is no flicker. Now it gets a bit more complicated. In order to defeat the gain adjustment that the camera seems to self apply,I put the camera in manual mode. I used an old 50mm non AI lens. I set the aperture on the lens to f2.0. Next, I used my handheld light meter to determine that with the amount of light I had in my room, an ISO of 1250 would expose properly at f2.0 with a 1/60 second shutter. Hopefully everyone is still following. Now I set the ISO on the camera to 1250 ( before putting it in live view more) after setting the ISO I turned on live view. I used the thumb wheel to set set the shutter to 1/60. I then locked the exposure with the AE-L button. I believe by doing this I was able to minimize the gain compensation, or what ever makes the sensor adjust. At this point I recorded some video. I was able to fully control everything. I did a panning shot of my kitchen counter with a tripod. I think the video looks okay other then I had a had time focusing, part because of the manual lens and a three in screen, part because of good ol' Miller. After watching the footage I think it could work. I agree the compression kinda sucks, but I'm shooting in low light at an ISO of 1250. Maybe with a lower ISO it will yield a cleaner result.
see what i was talking about here
from second 9 to 23 everything locked. don't you think? nikon's own little movie
http://vimeo.com/1657254
from second 9 to 23 everything locked. don't you think? nikon's own little movie
http://vimeo.com/1657254
well done Joe94
that's a way of doing it. yes ae-lock hold is a must. otherwise it would reset when you depress
you didn't say anything about autoiso activation. was it on? if yes what shutter speed?
if you assign Fn to display iso does it change live?
iso 1250 may not be hollywood but i bet standard res is great. or fix some in post.
that's a way of doing it. yes ae-lock hold is a must. otherwise it would reset when you depress
you didn't say anything about autoiso activation. was it on? if yes what shutter speed?
if you assign Fn to display iso does it change live?
iso 1250 may not be hollywood but i bet standard res is great. or fix some in post.
Last edited:
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
thanks joe94. any way we could see it?
Zak Forsman
Major Contributor
Kholi hasn't stated that it can't be locked. He is saying that the shutter can't be set manually, it is automatic until the AE-L button is pressed, no matter what the display says. ISO and aperture is manual.
Joe94
there was no need for external light meter
all you had to do is activate autoiso with a very low activation and look at the iso display while you point your camera around
iso will change to match current settings and you'll be able to understand what would be required
it would go up and down, not only up from current value
exposure compensation works in autoiso too and will be calculated.
@Zak Forsman: ae-l icon displayed, no flicker when entering the room with backlight. i know what it means, i put that link right?
@bearing: it is automatic until locked. wasn't this supposed to be this way or how it should be? forever auto or forever manual?
there was no need for external light meter
all you had to do is activate autoiso with a very low activation and look at the iso display while you point your camera around
iso will change to match current settings and you'll be able to understand what would be required
it would go up and down, not only up from current value
exposure compensation works in autoiso too and will be calculated.
@Zak Forsman: ae-l icon displayed, no flicker when entering the room with backlight. i know what it means, i put that link right?
@bearing: it is automatic until locked. wasn't this supposed to be this way or how it should be? forever auto or forever manual?
lisa hayse
Active member
Great work guys.
Kholi, You Rock.......
This Camera has limitations but, Kicks Ass..
With the right respect to the limitation it can go far.
Especially that ah shi** video
I ordered two cameras today from RITZ Camera.
Kholi, You Rock.......
This Camera has limitations but, Kicks Ass..
With the right respect to the limitation it can go far.
Especially that ah shi** video
I ordered two cameras today from RITZ Camera.
alright time to chime in after following soon to be 1500 post thread!
ill be getting the D90 tomorrow or sunday i believe. camera store is going to call when it arrives in their shipment tomorrow. then i just have to arrange for it to somehow get from the store to me, you could say im in a somewhat remote location at the moment...
since the announcement i started researching ways to make this workflow better on the post side. basically im kinda bored and want a challenge. i had been thinking of developing stuff for the hv20 workflow such as a better way to achieve pulldown removal for NLE editing and some other stuff but kinda never followed through cause while HV20 can produce amazing images, the whole 35mm adapter workflow kinda dissapointed me after i did a lot of work on one with a hvx setup this past year. it opened doors but still was pretty limited.
now the nikon d90 has aroused my neurons! definately a lot of potential but also already a lot of dissapointments from what kholi has been able to reveal about this cam. but still it is way too soon to throw in the towel. i think a lot can be done to make this cam work better.
the lack of manual control in d-movie is upsetting but this is simply firmware. all the tools are in place but for some reason nikon didnt implement them(maybe just photography dudes who are new to the motion picture side and have yet to learn to think like a cinematographer) so firmware update please? if not i dont think a firmware hack would be that hard, i mean its not trying to add something that its not capable of doing, the camera has full manual control for pics, just need to implement a way for d-movie mode. so ill start working on that and see what it would need to take and but at the moment i think i could at least deliver somehow a firmware hack for manual control in d-movie.
also we need to get someone to test this hdmi output and see how this works. i understand from looking it up that that there are overlayed menus no matter what but that shouldnt be that hard to remove also via a firmware have. the only thing im worried about is what happens to the data from the sensor between the capture on the sensor and the hdmi output, ie will it be something raw or will it be touched by sometype of manipulation. (it is hard for me to believe that it would be a raw output from the sensor after it has been downsampled to 1280x720 but before it has been compressed to mjpeg) but yeah this still could be an option maybe that would be away to get around the pitfalls of mjpeg
whats working for us is that mjpeg which derives from aspects of jpeg which itself has been around for along time compared to newer formats. this means that there has been a ton of development over the years for jpeg ish, including ways to post-optimize a jpeg file/clean up artifacts and compression somewhat. obviously there will never be an amazing elixir to restore original data and recreate the original image because of jpegs lossy nature but i definately know that you can in theory clean up a poorly compressed mjpeg file to be at least a noticeable and worthwhile improvement over the original(ive already started dissecting the data from the random nikon clips posted up this past week to see what it will be capable of) so thats a plus there
now as for the rolling shutter, that is a huge dissapointment but not an end all. i mean kohli said it best, the thing is ways next to nothing compared to say a ex1 with 35 adapter/lens/rails and all setup or a red for that matter so its no surprise that holding the camera alone is useless but there are definately plenty of ways to minimize this through rigs of all sorts and tripods to glidecams to hey, just put it on a shoulder mount and add some weightlifting weights!
i dont know cause i just started looking into the whole rolling shutter stuff tonight if there is anything that can be done on the images on the post side of things but already have read some interesting technical journal articles published from studies in computer science so hopefully ill find something that might help or maybe even ill get one of my random bursts of brilliance to take this whole rolling shutter issure down a path no one else has really tested yet...
so kohli, cant remember if you said or not, but you anyclue what the shutter speed is in any of the shots you uploaded or is the whole d-movie thing mean you dont know what shutter you shoot with?
but if you do what was the shutter speed for those clips as well as iso and aperture too?
anyway i have already been planning and working on this project to clean up mjpeg clips as well as a bunch of other usefull nifty tools that i just want for myself for my workflow but figure a lot of others will benefit too so i might as well share
plus itll be fun getting feedback, kinda like practice for another project i have been developing privately for the past few years that i would say kind of rivals red but on the post production side(and no its not an NLE, the ones out there are great, i'm just going to fill in where they left off and then some 
well to finish this post off, thanks kholi for the work today, definately first place prize for first person to dig into this setup but im going to have to claim first prize for first d90 footage with a pretty rediculously awesome subject for shooting that im positive no one else in all of these dv forums has an option for on a daily basis. oooh this will be fun to mix a sweet new camera and stuff that is equally awesome to shoot it on. (hint: if i get too close i will be eaten)
ill be getting the D90 tomorrow or sunday i believe. camera store is going to call when it arrives in their shipment tomorrow. then i just have to arrange for it to somehow get from the store to me, you could say im in a somewhat remote location at the moment...
since the announcement i started researching ways to make this workflow better on the post side. basically im kinda bored and want a challenge. i had been thinking of developing stuff for the hv20 workflow such as a better way to achieve pulldown removal for NLE editing and some other stuff but kinda never followed through cause while HV20 can produce amazing images, the whole 35mm adapter workflow kinda dissapointed me after i did a lot of work on one with a hvx setup this past year. it opened doors but still was pretty limited.
now the nikon d90 has aroused my neurons! definately a lot of potential but also already a lot of dissapointments from what kholi has been able to reveal about this cam. but still it is way too soon to throw in the towel. i think a lot can be done to make this cam work better.
the lack of manual control in d-movie is upsetting but this is simply firmware. all the tools are in place but for some reason nikon didnt implement them(maybe just photography dudes who are new to the motion picture side and have yet to learn to think like a cinematographer) so firmware update please? if not i dont think a firmware hack would be that hard, i mean its not trying to add something that its not capable of doing, the camera has full manual control for pics, just need to implement a way for d-movie mode. so ill start working on that and see what it would need to take and but at the moment i think i could at least deliver somehow a firmware hack for manual control in d-movie.
also we need to get someone to test this hdmi output and see how this works. i understand from looking it up that that there are overlayed menus no matter what but that shouldnt be that hard to remove also via a firmware have. the only thing im worried about is what happens to the data from the sensor between the capture on the sensor and the hdmi output, ie will it be something raw or will it be touched by sometype of manipulation. (it is hard for me to believe that it would be a raw output from the sensor after it has been downsampled to 1280x720 but before it has been compressed to mjpeg) but yeah this still could be an option maybe that would be away to get around the pitfalls of mjpeg
whats working for us is that mjpeg which derives from aspects of jpeg which itself has been around for along time compared to newer formats. this means that there has been a ton of development over the years for jpeg ish, including ways to post-optimize a jpeg file/clean up artifacts and compression somewhat. obviously there will never be an amazing elixir to restore original data and recreate the original image because of jpegs lossy nature but i definately know that you can in theory clean up a poorly compressed mjpeg file to be at least a noticeable and worthwhile improvement over the original(ive already started dissecting the data from the random nikon clips posted up this past week to see what it will be capable of) so thats a plus there
now as for the rolling shutter, that is a huge dissapointment but not an end all. i mean kohli said it best, the thing is ways next to nothing compared to say a ex1 with 35 adapter/lens/rails and all setup or a red for that matter so its no surprise that holding the camera alone is useless but there are definately plenty of ways to minimize this through rigs of all sorts and tripods to glidecams to hey, just put it on a shoulder mount and add some weightlifting weights!
i dont know cause i just started looking into the whole rolling shutter stuff tonight if there is anything that can be done on the images on the post side of things but already have read some interesting technical journal articles published from studies in computer science so hopefully ill find something that might help or maybe even ill get one of my random bursts of brilliance to take this whole rolling shutter issure down a path no one else has really tested yet...
so kohli, cant remember if you said or not, but you anyclue what the shutter speed is in any of the shots you uploaded or is the whole d-movie thing mean you dont know what shutter you shoot with?
but if you do what was the shutter speed for those clips as well as iso and aperture too?
anyway i have already been planning and working on this project to clean up mjpeg clips as well as a bunch of other usefull nifty tools that i just want for myself for my workflow but figure a lot of others will benefit too so i might as well share
plus itll be fun getting feedback, kinda like practice for another project i have been developing privately for the past few years that i would say kind of rivals red but on the post production side(and no its not an NLE, the ones out there are great, i'm just going to fill in where they left off and then some well to finish this post off, thanks kholi for the work today, definately first place prize for first person to dig into this setup but im going to have to claim first prize for first d90 footage with a pretty rediculously awesome subject for shooting that im positive no one else in all of these dv forums has an option for on a daily basis. oooh this will be fun to mix a sweet new camera and stuff that is equally awesome to shoot it on. (hint: if i get too close i will be eaten)