Im Scared, they say my audio will suck if I dont get a LAV!!!

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez

Well-known member
So, I will be shooting my feature starting next weekend, it is a drama, mostly indoors, but a few outdoors scenes, one in a park, one in the frontyard, pretty basic I guess you could say.

I have a sennheiser mkh 70 with the foam and a windcutter.com fur
- mackie field mixer
- dvx200
- fostex field recorder which I might not even use
- boom pole


But, people, including my cast are telling me that they are scared that we are shooting with only that mic that I just mentioned, and think we should use lavs.

I did my research a long time ago while building the package. Also my mixer guy has not done this before, but we are doing plenty of tests this weekend, to know how levels should be, etc.

Im sharing this info with everyone because does anyone think I should get some lavs? My budget is limited, should i trade the mkh70 for some lavs? Or is everyone smoking crack? Ha.

But really, what is the best technique to get the audio in sounding its cleanest, I mean, I just got that mkh70 mic, am I okay? I think so, but I just wanted to leave my last minute audio plans with you guys to hear what you think, recommend about lavs, and while I was doing my research, why in the world did I not care too much for lavs that I probably learned about them before thus overlooked them, thanks.
 
http://search.ebay.com/lavalier-microphone_W0QQdfspZ32QQfromZR40QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsbrsrtZd

Now what are the differences between th $60 mics with shipping, and the $600 mics,

Can I get a $60 mic and still be "professional" and get as good quality as the mkh-70 or do I need a $400+ lav mic to sound as good as the mkh-70 and match audio.

I did the research, and now know that the lav mic is just to ballback on if the shotgun sounds hissy, and vice versa for dialogue.

So yeah, I mean I can do without, but do the prices on the lavs really make a difference?
 
All due respect -- I don't know what your situation is, but you really need a sound guy who is already up to speed. Preferably one who owns his own gear. A week before start of principal photography on a feature is no time to start learning about microphones.

Best of luck though! :)
 
Clint - I can't agree with Noah more, the Sound DVD is a really great resource, and made for people exactly in your situation. It will give you a good rundown on the basics, as well as good info on the differences between mics (including sample clips from many).
You will not regret getting it.

As far as lavs go - without reading your script it's nearly impossible to say with 100% certainty one way or the other...but I can tell you from my experience that Lav's on a feature film shoot are generally the exception, not the rule.

I'm not saying it wouldn't be good to have the option on hand - but odds are you won't be relying on a lav most of the time.
 
Yeah I had my doubt on lavs before, thats why I chose the mkh-70, but you know how it is having last minute doubts, I was just making sure that Im not crazy for not getting a lav. I think my 1 source should be fine, I will be previewing on the monitors and if things arent good, reshoot on the fly.
 
Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez said:
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So yeah, I mean I can do without, but do the prices on the lavs really make a difference?
Click to expand...

You get what you pay for. But read those product descriptions carefully. "Lav" describes a type of microphone capsule, but lav mics can either be used hard-wired with a cable going to the mixer or wireless, using a radio link. I'll bet the most expensive of that price range are wireless setups consisting of the mic itself plus the transmitter/receiver pair. The least expensive would be just the mic head alone. Typical new prices for pro quality mics only, without any wireless components, would range from around $150 up to $400 or so. You can get cheaper, like the Giant Squid mics so popular with the wedding shooters, but I'd be wary of their quality for broadcast and theatrical uses.

When should you use a lav and when a boom? Usually the boom mic, used properly, will give a better sound. But your shots or scene blocking might be such that you can't get the boom mic close enough to the talent while avoiding getting it into the shot - a long, wide shot for example. Even a long gun like your Senn MKH70 will sound its best if you can keep it no more than 4 to 6 feet away from the talent. If that would put it in the shot, lav mics hidden on the talent might give better results.

I have to add, I'm surprised at your choice of an MKH70 as your principal mic. It's certainly a quality mic, definitely professional, but long shotguns in general are rather specialized items and not usually used for general dialog recording. Their patterns are so tight that the boom operator will have to be very well rehearsed and really stay on his toes with his aim to keep your talent from going off mic with the slightest movement.
 
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With more due respect, if your question had a direct answer then thousands of sound guys would have wasted tens of thousands of dollars on unnecessary crap.

For starters a long gun is the LEAST versatile mic you can get. Also the most difficult to get good sound out of with multiple subjects. It definately won't work for any possible indoor shots.

Given the constraints you propose I would ditch the 70, get a 60, a proper zeppelin and an oktava and then block your shots so a lav is not necessary. Next time around get the DVXUser DVD and Jay Rose Audio book and give your inexperienced audio guy at least a month to practice. I imagine you didn't just get your DP starting from scratch this week also?

The audio world did fine before lavs but as lavs became more viable the need for ADR went down.

Also, for most modern narratives a wireless lav is the norm. Cabled lavs make for tricky long shots with actors moving around. This will start to break your budget real fast unless you consider renting or buying the wireless for duration of the production and selling at the end.

Good luck
 
Honestly, the Sound DVD can save you and it might not. Even after the arrival of the DVD, you only have maybe 1 or 2 days before principle photography. This means that you either A) have to buy additional microphones to accompany your MKH70, B) rent microphones to accompany your MKH70, C) your boom operator needs to learn QUICKLY, D) find additional help who is already up to speed.

Your boomed microphone will always sound better than any lavaliers only if it's within the right distance and perspectives. You'll be okay Clint, we believe in you!
 
Your audio might suck either way, actually having a "sound person" with no experience makes having your audio suck a lot more probable. Sorry to sound harsh but where was your preproduction planning? One difference between the $60 "lav" and the $600 "lav" might be that one ia a wired lav and the other includes a wireless transmitter/ receiver. There aren't many lavs that would cost $600 on their own. Other minor point. You mentioned your "field Mackie mixer". Mackie doesn't make a battery powered mixer. There is a mod you can have done and power it off an NP1 but given your seeming budget I kind of doubt that that is what you have. So you will need AC to run the mixer.
Lets put it another way. You NEED a real sound person. If you had a few months to work this all out maybe things would shake out and be OK but you no longer have the time. Your in LA for gods sake, it's crawling with sound people. Find someone local who can work out what you need and train your "sound person", or best hire them for the full shoot. And you do know you need two people. An experienced person could probably do it alone (for the right kind of shoot) but you really do want two people, a mixer and a boom operator.
 
Yes, as Noiz2 mentioned. Feature Films = 2+ sound crew!

Last weekend, I was in this BIG project where I was the only sound person on set. Even other people who have had some basic sound experience couldn't even get the microphone correctly placed on two actress that were talking OFFSCREEN! Don't do this, it will hurt your film. Do get a second person.
 
All of this is the right advice, so you probably know what you're going to do. I would just add that the Sound DVD is worth getting no matter what you decide. You'll be up to speed, but you can always show it to crew members who need a tune up. Great resource to have on hand.

But only show them once, then make them get their own copy!:Drogar-Love(DBG):
 
Sound is easily the most important aspect of a film. People sometimes forgive bad picture. People seldom forgive bad sound.

Hire someone. I assume you have a good deal of money running on this film. Spending the money on someone who knows what they are doing will be the best money you can spend. Pay the extra money. Do you really want to rely on someone who watched a DVD a day before the shoot on your feature. Get a professional mixer and sound guy. You won't be disappointed. You will end up paying more since you just took them on with zero notice, but you can negotiate out a rate.
 
thanks

thanks

Yeah thanks guys, Im trying to get that dvd asap, does anyone in LA have a copy I can buy off them? I would be able to pick up.

I take no advice too harsh so don't worry for those who were tough, thanks to those who think I can do it as well.

Yeah I do have 2 "sound guys". 1 guy with a good ear for sound, and who makes beats and music, and knows of levels and stuff, and well another guy who will boom operate.

I know Im in LA and there are sound guys all around, but for this film, it is a no budget, and well I don't want to offend any professionals in asking. I literally have no budget, so training a few newbies to become amateurs is the best I can do. I am going to try to have the sound come out as professional though with pro equipment, and overlooking everything as well and doing many tests prior to the first shooting day which is in 7 days!!!

But really, if anyone in LA has a copy I can buy, hey let me know, thanks.
 
Trust me. If you have a good script, you won't insult a sound guy by asking them to work on a deferred pay basis. You have literally nothing to lose by asking. At least try.

Good luck!
 
Clint Nitkiewiz Hernandez said:
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Yeah I do have 2 "sound guys". 1 guy with a good ear for sound, and who makes beats and music, and knows of levels and stuff, and well another guy who will boom operate.

...
Click to expand...

No offense intended, but someone who "makes beats and music" probably won't have a clue about recording sound for film/video dialog. Different objectives, different skill set. (I think it's questionable whether "beats" even qualify as music at all but that's a different discussion.) Likewise the boom operator position calls for a lot of specialized skills in its own right - the boom op is not just an organic mic stand - and his ability to hear the ambience of the set and the timbre of the voices in his headphones, shifting aim to follow dialog while maintaining the mic position that keeps the sound consistent moment to moment and shot to shot is very important for achieving a good end result.
 
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Look, the long and the short of it is FOLLOW WABBITS ADVICE - trade that 70 for a 60 (or even a 416) and an oktava, or just for a sanken cs-3e which is a good all rounder, and block your shots keeping in mind that you are running at a disadvantage on sound without professional operators and a lot of gear.

Something no one has mentioned is that you should put A LOT of effort into getting your locations sounding good too - thats more than half the battle. a quiet, nonreverberant/dead environment makes recording with any boom based mic a lot easier. so get a lot of blankets and stuff to absorb echoes, and go crazy with your locations. lock down any noise making things, and dont let crew take the piss in terms of background noise.... and where possible, get your actors to deliver their lines at workable volumes - this lets you gain down on the mixer side and improves the "ambient to dialogue" ratio of your recordings, and the signal to noise in a less than awesome mixer.
 
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