24P or 30P opinions please

Riceman

Riceman

Member
This is the scoop. I am working on a documentary and trying to decide what frame rate to shoot at. The ultimate destination will be DVD and possibly Network TV, although it may have a few brief big screen showings.

I am used to shooting 30P and have never shot 24P, but it seems most people are shooting 24P for docs. My only hesitation to shooting this format is my camera work. I am not used to dealing with the shuddering effect of 24P, and the motion in my test footage , in my opinion, looks better in 30P. Even with following the subject, and slowing down my pans, but maybe I am just used to 30P.

Are there a lot of doc's shot at 30P? Are there any advantages/disadvantages to each format? Any opinions are greatly appreciated.
 
Most documentaries are shot in 50i/60i, 24p/25p is mostly usen on film or cinema for the filmic look. In a documentary you want most of the picture to be in focus and "REAL", same with motion, most want a harsh realistic look. In addition to most documentaries being "low budget" using the simplest of equipment etc.

So basicly if you wanna go down the "mainstream and stereotype" documentary street, stick to 50i/60i or what i recon you mean by 30p (if you are deinterlacing to 720p). In addition it might be a little wearsome to watch a filmic and stunning filmed documentary and loosing focus on the real story.

Considering the camera you have i understand you frustration or that you are a bit lost. It would be cheapest and easyes to film in 24pN/25pN in regards to storage on P2 cards. But if you have space/money/storage to film a whole documentary in 50i/60i i would do that, and rather do some post editing to get the filmic results, rather then forcing yourself you use 24p/25p.

Hope this helps, i might be of in the wrong direction so anyone feel free to correct.
 
I say 30p. I use that to film everything including skateboarding. 24p is way to low and i think if you shoot 50i/60i it will look to much like a "home movie"
 
i was with this same question.

i will start a project next 20th august.

a tourism backpacker film , a project on my own, about argentina and chile , for internet...

and think wich frame rate should i choose...

them i realized that 30p would be the better choice.

because 30p still has the film look ,and with 30p i have more possibilities on camera movements, avoiding too much strobbing with 24p., , 60i is too much soup opera and hard news....i dont like it....30p is much more artistic.

i´ll be back in early october...them i will post some nature footage here...

tks
 
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I shoot everything in 24p.

My big question is....why do you want your documentary to look like everyone else's?

I personally HATE the look of 60i...and 30p, IMO, doesn't look much better
.

I shoot everything from doc's, short's, features, and even corporate work all in 24p. It gives everything a more cinematic feel.

30p looks too much like video...
 
I just finished a feature length documentary. I shot it 720/24pn (with an HPX500 and an HVX200). I chose that for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is I like the look - a lot... Additionally shooting native allows much more card space, a major consideration when shooting something that may have you rolling for hours at a time.

After nearly 40 years of shooting film exclusively, and HATING the look of video documentaries, I am very satisfied with the Panasonic HDVPRO HD footage. I don't post clips, but the trailer is viewable at boyhoodshadows.org.
 
If your main product will be video, I say stick to 30p. It has the nicve progressive film-like look, and will look best in any medium EXCEPT film. 24p will require pulldown for many video display types, which will lead to stuttering and/or interlacing.

It seems like you know this already! So, to answer your question, I'd say: many people shoot 24p for things because they equate it with "film look", not realizing that 30p will often have more of a film look (due to lack of pulldown) on NTSC playback...
 
This is all so subjective, what really matters is what you want your project to look like and upon what medium it will be viewed.

24p, 30p, 60i .. they are all good for different things.

It seems like you have the right idea by shooting test footage and seeing for yourself. Also, I know there are a lot of good threads in this forum for the best ways to shoot footage for a particular medium.

I'd say do a few searches and you'll get a million different ideas about what should be done in what situation, take them all in, do some tests and go from there.
 
What would ever be the advantage of shooting 60i if you have the option of shooting 30p? Wasn't the only reason cameras have shot 60i is that it was a way to compress 30fps footage?
 
hi
we are in the same situation. our final product will be a Dbeta NTSC. we'd like to keep everything at 29.97 in order to avoid problems at Post and also we are so happy with the process of 1080-down-to-SD.

just one quick question
is there any redundant frames in 1080i30p mode or let me put this way; do we have to process the files as in 108024pa or 72030p?

sorry for hijacking the thread:huh:

best

berk
 
mrbrycel said:
What would ever be the advantage of shooting 60i if you have the option of shooting 30p? Wasn't the only reason cameras have shot 60i is that it was a way to compress 30fps footage?
Click to expand...

60i captures fast motion (e.g., sports) more accurately and has a look that indicates "reality" (vs. "fiction") to viewers. It certainly has its place! 60i and 30p have exactly the same data rate, and can be handled in post in exactly the same way. In 30p, both fields are updated every 1/30 second (higher spatial resolution), whereas in 60i one of the two fields is updated every 1/60 second (higher temporal resolution).
 
ullanta said:
60i captures fast motion (e.g., sports) more accurately and has a look that indicates "reality" (vs. "fiction") to viewers. It certainly has its place! 60i and 30p have exactly the same data rate, and can be handled in post in exactly the same way. In 30p, both fields are updated every 1/30 second (higher spatial resolution), whereas in 60i one of the two fields is updated every 1/60 second (higher temporal resolution).
Click to expand...

That makes sense now thanks for the clarification.
 
If you're not printing to film, I wouldn't do 24p, usually.

You don't have to pick only one. Plenty of docs pull footage from everywhere and have 24, 25, and 30 fps included. You can still be consistent without being uniform.
 
some thing rules i go by... start with the end use, dvd , tv i use 30p . using only 24p for slow moody shots witha stationary camera. but anything shot in 24p when output to dvd or broadcast will get a pulldown frame. anything shot in 30p dropped into a 24p timeline will be 24p. . Anything i shoot with a camera moving even on a dolly. shoot 30p. anything moving fast sports,shoot 30p. run and gun in 24p is dead wrong. fact..you can always change 30p to24p but if you get stutter at 24p and out put to a 30p time line it will still stutter. the prime lens with shallow dof effect is 5x more of a film look effect. ...to say 24p only ,always is a mistake. if going to be converted to film is the only time when the 24p only would apply.
 
I keep hearing that 24p with the pulldown has a strobe effect when on DVD. But I've never noticed it. Isn't pretty much every feature film on DVD 24p with pulldown?
 
a dop on a feature film know the limitations and limits of 24p .shooting angles ,overcranking,limit camera movement, combo with motion blur , they just work towards the best result. shots that don,t work will end up on the editroom floor.{film refrence} some stutter makes a certain look on purpose. thats why the dop get the big bucks.
 
Thanks for all the input here. It seems like shooting 30pn will be the way to go, if i decide to shoot 720, or 30p at 1080. From my tests so far I like the look of 30p, it gives such a smooth motion to the footage, which is just beautiful when over-cranking. I am not interested in shooting 24p for this project after reading all the opinions on this and other threads. I would need to curb my shooting techniques, and at this point I don't love the 24p look enough to do that. Maybe that will change and I will form one of the 24p or nothing opinions...but for now 30p seems to be the flavor for me.

Additionally this is not going to film, at least not that I know of, so again I am back at 30p. I guess in the end it is all down to personal opinion.
 
shoot in 50i or 60i if you have the luxury it will look more like doc style. When you go into anything under 30p you have that more film motion blur and also more film grain in 24p, It really depends on what you are going for for your look of it. But personally I'd rent a 160gb firestore and shoot in 1080/60i it will be better for broadcast tv and look more like docs that i have seen more recently as the world demands the crisp high def in their tv shows, news and documentaries , example 60 minutes. good luck.
 
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