My EX1 looks like crap in 24p

lycrarob

lycrarob

Member
I personally am new to 24p.
I have other friends who have the Canon xl2 and say the 24p on this camera looks weird to the eye.
I know the Canon XL2 is not a real 24p as I have been trying to figure out what I am doing wrong.
My EX1 looks like crap in 24p.

Is there something I need to do to make my image look good?

I due understand that fact that I slow down my speed, means I slow down my camera work. I try to follow actors with the camera, the image is still stroby upone out put to DVD.
I know that this has to be something I am not doing properly in my operations.
All help is needed.

My camera before this beast was a Panasonic DVC-30 in 30 fps.

Thanks

Rob
 
Strobing is normal, when you have 24, clear, crisp images displayed in a span of 1 second.
Slowing down the shutter, or even turning if off will blur images so that you won't notice this effect. It is normal to film at 24fps. The EX1 is no different.

Another factor is that the effect looks worse on a computer than it does once it's inverse telecined on a DVD player. Case in point, I shot some equestrian event recently at 24p and the camera was panned a lot rapidly, to follow the riders as they passed in front of the camera. It was rather juddery on the computer, but once the authored DVD was finished, it looked just like any Hollywood production played on a large screen. I suspect something about the nature of the way computers process the image makes the judder effect more visually disruptive than when a DVD player processes it.

Tips for shooting 24P:
Slow your pans way down.. it should take at least 17 seconds to pan 180 degrees.
Use slower shutter if you're going to pan faster and sharp still-frames are not needed.

Make sure you're doing a proper inverse telecine to DVD if the project's target is DVD video. An improper I-T process can result in ghost frames output between real frames, leading to a severe stuttering effect every 3-4 frames.
 
People what does strobing actually mean. Is it when you shoot in fluorescent lightning conditions and your whole image flickers ? OR is it something else .

When i put the EX1 in 60 frame mode does it still have this storbing effect ? It seems to me the whole image moves different in 60fps when you pan around and move the camera.

What does shutter off mean ?
 
Strobing is the visual effect of motion within an film or video image. It's not as apparent at 60 fps (fields per second or frames, take your pick) but it's there.

24p has a dream like effect and it's what movie goers are used to seeing when they see a real film. 60p or 60i has a "live" you-are-there effect. Its motion is more realistic and a lot less strobey and noticeable...if at all.

Like Stevet says, turn your shutter on. But more importantly make sure your shutter is set to 1/48 because (stupidly on Sony's part) it defaults to 1/60. 1/60 using 24p looks REALLY bad to my eye.

Strobing has been discussed ad nauseum here on DVXUser.com . Check out http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=strobing+site:dvxuser.com for all the info you can stand!
 
One other thing I want to say is 24p is an acquired taste. It does look better (motion-wise) once converted to DVD or BluRay with proper pulldown/whatnot. You will need to be very careful with panning (slow down!) and movement within the frame. Try to keep your depth of field low as well because the deep focus of video is what contributes a lot to 24p's strobing issues. Longer focal lengths and larger apertures will help a lot, as does the 1/2" chip on the EX1 or use of a 35mm adapter (the later helping IMMENSELY with 24p if you can afford it).

If you are used to shooting regular video cameras and switch to 24p it will look wrong. But after awhile 24p starts to look "right" and when you go back to 60p or 60i those modes will look too fast. Gotta love the human mind!
 
Yeap...

Record a simulated fight in 24P and 60i, 24P will be more realistic, in 60i you'll see all the mistakes :)

Ulisses
 
[/QUOTE]
Make sure you're doing a proper inverse telecine to DVD if the project's target is DVD video. An improper I-T process can result in ghost frames output between real frames, leading to a severe stuttering effect every 3-4 frames.[/QUOTE]


I am using FCP. I have never had to use an inverse telecine to DVD before.
How do I do this?
Ill try this right away.

Thanks for this info. I knew there was something I was not doing right.
 
ulisses said:
Yeap...

Record a simulated fight in 24P and 60i, 24P will be more realistic, in 60i you'll see all the mistakes :)

Ulisses
Click to expand...

Recording something so fast as a fight is not to fast for 24p? I honestly would never have thought to try that. I thought that would make for bad footage.

I think I have some playing around in 24p for the next while.

Does anyone have a book or DVD on shooting 24p that there willing to sell as a used item?
I will highly consider purchasing it off you.

Rob
 
Ill try the 1/48 shutter speed as well.

If I purchase an external monitor for my FCP Studio. Will I be able to see what my project will look like before I burn it?
One thing is, there not quite worth the money they charge. Is there a way on hooking up an HDTV instead and have the same output?
 
lycrarob said:
Recording something so fast as a fight is not to fast for 24p? I honestly would never have thought to try that. I thought that would make for bad footage.
Click to expand...

You're simulating the cadence of film.

24p was fine for Rocky, fine for Raging Bull, fine of Jet Li, fine for Jackie Chan, fine for Bruce Lee.
 
Would it be better to shoot at 1/48 frame rate or keep the shutter at 180 degrees? Seems like their basically the same.
 
It's the same thing if you're shooting in 24p. If you use multiple frame rates (25, 50, 60 etc) keeping the shutter at 180 degrees will adjust the shutter-speed to match 1/(framerate*2).
 
Make sure you're doing a proper inverse telecine to DVD if the project's target is DVD video. An improper I-T process can result in ghost frames output between real frames, leading to a severe stuttering effect every 3-4 frames.[/quote]

how is this I-T process accomplished?

thanks.
 
shoudnt he just burn the DVD progressive 24p and then if it's shown on a CRT telecine will be applied by the player
 
DanHD said:
shoudnt he just burn the DVD progressive 24p and then if it's shown on a CRT telecine will be applied by the player
Click to expand...


The DVD spec doesn't support 24p. But you can make a progressive 24p MPEG2 stream and run it through DGPulldown to set the flags to 'trick' authoring software into thinking it's a legal 60i stream. That works for me.
 
So wait..if I shoot in 24pNATIVE and edit in 24p timeline, should I export with telecine into a 60i stream??

How would a progressive television show the footage? does it reverse telecine
 
Okay, I like to know about this too. I shoot 24p native, edit in 24p project timeline. What is the workflow froming shotting 24p native to a DVD media output? Not sure if I'm doing it wrong, but I shoot in 24p, edit in 24 project, export as QT-Ref, redner in Procoder, using Adobe Encore to burn into DVD. I believed Encore as an option to burn into progessive mode.
 
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