Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
Thanks for the info.
The low light Miami Vice (2007) look. is this possible with HVX?
- Thread starter Richard J. Johnson
- Start date
I like the noise of the HVX. Despite what it looks like, Miami Vice was lit. Lit well. Mann went for exactly what he got and I am in the camp that likes it.
Vice isn't some romantic comedy and shouldn't look like one.
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Vice isn't some romantic comedy and shouldn't look like one.
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Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
I can't wait to get my new camera. I Love the DVX but it is time.
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Oh... absolutely. And many scenes required A LOT of lighting. I just want to make clear that my shots/sequence had no lights due to limitations, not because I think that's how it's actually done. It was an exercise in making the most of nothing as opposed to the thought that it should be done with nothing.
Just remember, filth, that the new camera is not going to improve your filmmaking, it's just going to give you a bigger, clearer picture.
dvxhutch
Well-known member
I wouldn't expect much with the HVX filthrich. Low light capability is the area where the DVX and HVX really fall away compared to the Viper, etc... I don't know about the HPX170.
Many of the scenes were not shot with anything but available (night) light. Many DOPs would be horrified with how he shot some of it, especially if you're after the "glossy" look of Hollywood films. But of course you're right that Mann wanted a different look, and he got it. I love some of it, dislike others.
I think we all owe Mann a lot of debt for showing us how far these cameras can be pushed. On the other hand, David Fincher is showing us, with ZODIAC and the trailer for BENJAMIN BUTTON, just how close to 35mm HD can become if lit in a more conventional way.
Hey filthrich, you've got me REALLY intrigued about your shooting style and what you want to do. Can you tell us a little more about the film you're working on?
Many of the scenes were not shot with anything but available (night) light. Many DOPs would be horrified with how he shot some of it, especially if you're after the "glossy" look of Hollywood films. But of course you're right that Mann wanted a different look, and he got it. I love some of it, dislike others.
I think we all owe Mann a lot of debt for showing us how far these cameras can be pushed. On the other hand, David Fincher is showing us, with ZODIAC and the trailer for BENJAMIN BUTTON, just how close to 35mm HD can become if lit in a more conventional way.
Hey filthrich, you've got me REALLY intrigued about your shooting style and what you want to do. Can you tell us a little more about the film you're working on?
dvxhutch
Well-known member
Not just in MV but also COLLATERAL. Check out the 2disc edition. On the 2nd disc, Mann talks about how, for example, they shot the scene near the end where the lights go out in the building when Cruise is trying to get Pinkett Smith. They just used the (night) light coming in from the windows! Amazing.
Mann talks about how 35mm would just look terrible in these conditions. I really admire his work in pushing the envelope on HD, but I personally think some of it looks great, some awful. Each to their own. I'll be interested to see his next movie, Public Enemies, shot on HD.
This is true relative to other similarly priced cameras. But one of the major differences between the DVX/HVX and the high end HD cameras is the low light capability. Filthrich wanted to know if it's possible to get the MV look with the HVX and IMO the answer is a definite 'no'. But let the debate continue!
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Well, then I do take issue. Maybe one or twp scenes where shot without extra light, but I have magazine articles with Dion Beebe talking about all the lighting that was used. A bit misleading to say "many" scene were shot without lights.
The answer to this is "Absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, the HVX can do it." He just has to make sure he has enough light.
The answer to this is "Absolutely, 100%, without a doubt, the HVX can do it." He just has to make sure he has enough light.
dvxhutch
Well-known member
Of course they used lights in many shots/scenes. And in many they didn't, using available lights and reflectors. That's what's so interesting about those films - seeing all the different ways HD can look.
The amount of light you would need for an exterior night shoot would be HUGE. It would be completely cost prohibitive to shoot this way with an HVX.
GageFX
Carbonite Member
I'm not going to argue, but it's just not so. My clips show what can be done with NO lights - and it is barely acceptable. If I had just two lights out there it would have been fine.
I guess we'll have to leave this at "Hutch says it cant, Gage says it can."
(And Gage has actually shot the footage.)
I guess we'll have to leave this at "Hutch says it cant, Gage says it can."
(And Gage has actually shot the footage.)
Mattykins
Cute Member
Have you ever shot on Vision 3? It handles low light amazingly well. We shot in only street lights, sodium vapor. I was the DP, didn't think we would get anything out of it really. Everything came out fantastically. I was blown away. The latitude on film is much better than any digital camera could hope to get.
It depends. The hardest part about night exterior is lighting the background to avoid the "being in a cave" effect. For that you need some powerful fixtures. But if you can find a place with a naturally lit BG (like a city backdrop for example) then it doesn't take that much light to light the subject, especially since you're going for the grainy, gain enhanced look.
This is just me messing around with the A1 (which has comparable low light performance to the HVX) on a pre-lighting session. There are just two lights used, gain was 6 db to bring up the naturally lit building in the background. And this is WITH a Letus Extreme and an 85mm f1.8 wide open.
And here's the same location the next day, this time with an artificially lit background (with just an extra 300 w fresnel).
dvxhutch
Well-known member
No I haven't, sounds interesting. Could you tell us more?
Absolutely, and nice footage by the way. I just don't know many Dps who'd shoot a whole film, short or otherwise, in medium shots at most.
I agree with you that some of MV is hard to stomach, but it's still a really interesting film from a HD point of view, don't you think?
Spartacus
Veteran
Hm, when I watched Collateral the first time, all I thought was "Hey looks like Chunking Express".
I´m almost sure, Kar Wei Wong and Doyle would have opted for a small HD camera, if there had been one available back then...
So can this look be recreated with the HVX, I´m pretty certain, to a satisfying degree.
Can this look be recreated anywhere?
I don´t think so.
This movie is Hong Kong. (Well, you could have done this in a lot of the neon overlit citys around Asia.)
So you´ll need to choose locations even more wisely, focusing on the big (annoying) artificiall lightsources e.g. the advertising indusrty gives us.
But then you´ll still need to light somehow.
Add as many chinese lanterns with CFLs inside (and some serious rigging) as a small generator will handle and you have a start.
Maybe instead of always argueing what we can´t do, we should concentrate on how we could do it.
I believe that´s how a lot of great imagery was produced in the past.
jbednarski
Active member
I saw some stills of ungraded footage about a year ago (the river scene with the go fast boats) and it looked like it was shot in daylihght compared to the version on the DVD. I'll bet they shot a lot of scenes much earlier in the day and then did the final look in post.
Mattykins
Cute Member
Vision 3 is the newest stock release by Kodak. As soon as I heard it was out, I went and tried it. Had a hell of a time convincing my DP to go with it. He didn't like the concept of a 500T film. Since typically they are grainy as hell.
We had great latitude with it. Got shots I didn't think were possible. The following screen grabs are with Vision 3, exposed at 320 ASA. No additional light added to the scene at all. Only available light. All uncorrected. Direct from our Telecine.
We had great latitude with it. Got shots I didn't think were possible. The following screen grabs are with Vision 3, exposed at 320 ASA. No additional light added to the scene at all. Only available light. All uncorrected. Direct from our Telecine.
dvxhutch
Well-known member
Vision 3 is the newest stock release by Kodak. As soon as I heard it was out, I went and tried it. Had a hell of a time convincing my DP to go with it. He didn't like the concept of a 500T film. Since typically they are grainy as hell.
We had great latitude with it. Got shots I didn't think were possible. The following screen grabs are with Vision 3, exposed at 320 ASA. No additional light added to the scene at all. Only available light. All uncorrected. Direct from our Telecine.
Thanks for that. I'll be following the use of this stock very closely in future. I'm sure we'd all appreciate any more info you have on further shoots.
A part of me wishes Mann would go back to film, but on the other hand I'm really enjoying the limits he's taking HD too. He seems to be sticking to HD for the moment though, according to his imdb profile.
I think it's fascinating the 2 extremes Mann and Fincher are getting using the same camera.
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
I have a feature coming up and the whole movie is at night in the projects. Just secured a small armory for the shoot out scenes. and two motorized wheelchairs. don't ask.