Unofficial music videos

Jonathan, are you interested just in making music videos or are you aspiring for filmmaking in general?

I watched your video and it's pretty well made. Nice job.

I've browsed myspace for some local bands here in Toronto but until now haven't found anything that really excited me. It all sounds the same: A lot of guitars and a lot of noise.

I did find a cool song called Roller Coaster by a Canadian band but then found out that they've become pretty successful lately and there was already a video made.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqVH7nA0Dk

I guess what I'm looking for is more pop than rock, at least not "grungy" rock. And certainly not hip-hop. Not my cup of tea.

Good pop is very hard to do, and very hard to find.
 
lynos.. isn't it easier being in canada.. dont you get money from factor? like 20K if they sell 3,000 records or something..
 
Hey Lynos,

That's true, it is hard to find just what you want to make a video for. I can tell you after doing a few of these that while before I thought I could force myself to make a video for a song I didn't like, now I say no way. Why bother? Music videos aren't a high enough paid market that you can force me to listen to your crappy song 250 times to make a video for it. Forget that. Now if I'm being paid highly that's a different story but obviously that's not happening much in the industry anymore.

On the plus side, because of the declining budgets of music videos, the record labels are forced to choose newer, less tried-and-true directors than before because the bigger directors don't have to work for such small fees and on such low budgets.

I'm interested in filmmaking in general, which can include virtually anything, except I have standards. I don't want to shoot porn, soft core stuff, nothing like that, I'm a classy guy and want to be involved in classy projects. But I'd really like to get into commercial work, I've done music videos, I've done corporate and industrial work, and I'd of course eventually like to get into narrative filmmaking like features or TV work would be fantastic. I really am not too picky about that, except that I'm not going to do work that isn't in my field, like I am not a shooter, cinematographer, etc., so I'm not going to do weddings or events or whatever else. I'm a producer / director, so I want to be involved in projects that actually require those positions, whereas some work is just too small scale to need it.
 
Well, I don't consider Porn as filmmaking... :-) At least not the majority of it.

I rarely watch music videos anymore. MTV has become a cesspool of stupid reality and teen shows. I do believe there are excellent videos out there, they're just much harder to find. The field is certainly not as innovative as it was in the 80's and early 90's, though.

With videos you can tell a story with music in a few minutes. It's very challenging. In some ways, music videos are closer to pure cinema than many dialogue-heavy features, as good as they may be.

DVXguy, I didn't really know what Factor was, so I googled it. It's interesting, although I'm not sure it applies to me right now. I am not a company but an independent person looking to make a music video.
 
Lynos said:
DVXguy, I didn't really know what Factor was, so I googled it. It's interesting, although I'm not sure it applies to me right now. I am not a company but an independent person looking to make a music video.
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It's not technically for you.. They give it to the band to hire a company that is Canadian. If you're going to direct a music video, you'd either produce it, or most likely use a production company. If you use a canadian production company, even the smallest band can get 20 - 40K. I'm surprised how many people dont utilize this.

Also, having a company name and presence is really step 1, when it comes to getting work. If I had 40K to award and a director wasn't affiliated with any business I would not feel confident at all in having him do the job.
 
That makes sense to me. One of the first things I did was to establish a production company, launch my Website, come up with company procedures, etc. That was with my former business partner, however. I'm now in the position of having to launch a new company and do this process over again as soon as I get back to L.A., which is pretty annoying but oh well.
 
chapelgrovefilms said:
Getting sued is never a good thing if you hope to be taken seriously as a professional in this business -- especially getting sued for copyright infringement. You may be broke now, but losing a damaging lawsuit can keep you broke for a long, long time. Just ask O.J. Simpson.



Where do you find this? I'd be interested in seeing the factual support for this statement.
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O.J. is a bad example for two reasons. One, he had something to lose. He wasn't a poor kid from the projects! Two, he parlayed his lawsuit into a decade of infamy.

Copying a CD is probably legal in the US according to most sources:
(http://www.musicunited.org/2_thelaw.html#5)
(http://stason.org/TULARC/entertainm...al-to-copy-an-LP-CD-or-pre-recorded-tape.html)
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Home_Recording_Act)
Definitely illegal in the UK, though.

Take this quote from the RIAA's own website:
"Record companies have never objected to someone making a copy of a CD for their own personal use. " They don't go so far as to say it's legal, but they certainly know they could never assemble an argument in a US court that says it's not.
 
I don't know what that argument is about -- copying a CD or DVD for your own personal use has always been legal. That's clearly established. It's just that, as someone else said, if you sell the original you must destroy any copies you have because you no longer have the legal right to use that media. You don't have the license. But copying stuff for personal use is perfectly acceptable. Most software licenses say that it's fine to have the software on your laptop and on your desktop, just don't use both at the SAME time. That's reasonable.
 
Music is inspirational to me, and very little else conjures up fantastical imagery in my head as an amazing song. While doing an "unofficial fan video" may not be financially rewarding, I can immediately understand the artistic satisfaction of doing it. It would be almost a "thank you" to those who have enriched your life with their music.

I guess it's obvious that I too am in the same boat as the OP. I literally lose sleep some times trying to figure out a way that I could do a video for this one specific song, with the bands blessing. I want to do it legally and with the bands approval, completely non profit, but distributable. :S

I PMed you Lynos
 
The argument isn't over copying for his own use -- it's about putting his video online on sites like YouTube. That is an absolutely clear violation of copyright law, not to mention being totally unethical.
 
ProfessorU said:
O.J. is a bad example for two reasons. One, he had something to lose. He wasn't a poor kid from the projects!
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Everybody has something to lose. A home. A bank account. Future earnings. Remember, the court awarded the Goldmans future earnings.

Say the record company decides it has lost $10 million in revenue because the OP puts a copy of their band's hottest song out there for free. Say they sue and win. The judgement could garnish all future earnings of the OP until the award is settled, regardless of whether or not he has $10 mil sitting around at the moment.

People who think they have nothing to lose might be surprised.
 
Let's try one more analogy....

You make a great movie. Sony buys it. Part of your agreement is that you'll get a cut of the net profits.

Your movie gets out there on DVD -- Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, Netflix -- and people LOVE it!

One person in particular -- a composer -- finds it 'inspirational'. So he copies your movie, strips out the music, and re-scores it with his own music. Then he starts giving out copies on DVD left and right -- free to whoever wants one. He even sets up a website where people can download a copy of 'his' movie.

Is he 'honoring' you? Is he 'paying tribute' to your great work? Or is he stealing money out of your pocket?
 
as far as anything is concerned with what's legal and illegal that is for lawyers to determine. The one thing I know is that in most cases it does not matter. people do things that aren't technically legal (like download songs from p2p networks) and get away with it. People also do things that are completely within their rights then get sued. What it always comes down to is whether or not it's worth it to sue you. If you're a kid that copies and uploads a video to youtube it's not worth it to get lawyers and pursue it. The only way it would be worth it is for them to make a point and scare others like with the RIAA and their lawsuits against teenages.. However, directing videos on youtube is a much smaller population of people then people downloading songs.. In that case they were doing it thousands of times..
 
To answer David's analogy: What would likely happen is that the composer is discovered and a brilliant career is started.

If you're trying to refer this to music videos, then the analogy falls flat because people don't pay to watch music videos. Music videos are a promotional tool, like TV commercials.
 
pmark23 said:
To answer David's analogy: What would likely happen is that the composer is discovered and a brilliant career is started.

If you're trying to refer this to music videos, then the analogy falls flat because people don't pay to watch music videos. Music videos are a promotional tool, like TV commercials.
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My point was, how will you feel when someone is taking money out of YOUR pocket in an effort to promote themselves? Will the law matter then???
 
DVXguy said:
as far as anything is concerned with what's legal and illegal that is for lawyers to determine. The one thing I know is that in most cases it does not matter. people do things that aren't technically legal (like download songs from p2p networks) and get away with it. People also do things that are completely within their rights then get sued. What it always comes down to is whether or not it's worth it to sue you. If you're a kid that copies and uploads a video to youtube it's not worth it to get lawyers and pursue it. The only way it would be worth it is for them to make a point and scare others like with the RIAA and their lawsuits against teenages.. However, directing videos on youtube is a much smaller population of people then people downloading songs.. In that case they were doing it thousands of times..
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Sure people get away with it. But if you're essentially going to bootleg a band's music, is that really going to make a good calling card for you when you try to use it to convince a record label to hire you to make videos for their band? If I were the guy doing the hiring, I'd have grave doubts about working with someone who has proven he doesn't mind stealing intellectual/creative property for his own purposes.
 
ToTheBlack. but you did put it online. That was the the whole intention behind that idea of mine. not to release it commercially anywhere. Not even submit to festivals.

In any case, it's on hold right now. I got the wind knocked out of my sails a little bit. I wasn't really able to find a local artist that a)interest me musically and b) needs someone to do videos for them, and to tell you the truth, MySpace is a really annoying, cluttered, ugly website.

Perhaps I am too picky. Do you think music video directors do videos ONLY to music they like? I think it's important if you want your piece to have some kind of heart.
 
DVXguy said:
chapel.. good thing you're not hiring.. I wouldn't care at all.. you just want to see talent..

check this out.. got him noticed and on MTV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grey_Album
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From the article... "Supporters of the day say that it signals a refusal by a vocal section of Internet society to let major label lawyers control musical creativity and specifically sampling."

One of these days a 'vocal section of Internet society' may decide it's perfectly alright to trample on OUR rights to our movies and videos, distributing them for free and taking money out of our pockets. Will it be okay then?

Just because somebody did it and got glorified for it, that doesn't make it right.

If you're in a position of authority with a media company whose job it is to make MONEY from the sale of music, you darned well better not "just want to see talent". The world's full of talent. What good does it do you to find a talented videomaker if he's just going to steal your music and cost you and your company money?

Sorry, but if having a bit of integrity makes me an outcast in the eyes of some here, so be it. Everyone has to be guided by their own conscience.

.
 
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