Which one of these sentences is correct?
- Thread starter c.g._eads
- Start date
craigbowman
Veteran
You can't change the sentence structure around or I could say then you would say "There are a chair and a small desk by the window."
ullanta
Veteran
C.G.: The real question is, why do you ask? It's all a lot of fun to try to decide what's "correct"; but if film dialogue were written in only correct speech, it would be pretty awkward and unrealistic.
Further, as a linguist will tell you, there is no "correct", especially in English. Language evolves, and there's always a gap between "langue" - the "correect" rules of a language, and "parole" - language as spoken. Some countries (e.g., Spain) attempt to define an official grammar and lexicon, though it still changes over time. For other languages (e.g., English), there's no such thing. Even for languages like Spanish, different countries have different grammatical standards...
Further, as a linguist will tell you, there is no "correct", especially in English. Language evolves, and there's always a gap between "langue" - the "correect" rules of a language, and "parole" - language as spoken. Some countries (e.g., Spain) attempt to define an official grammar and lexicon, though it still changes over time. For other languages (e.g., English), there's no such thing. Even for languages like Spanish, different countries have different grammatical standards...
MikeGunter
Well-known member
Perhaps...
But then linguists aren't in the business of teaching language grammars, syntax, even verb and subject agreement. They describe grammars rather than prescribe them.
Teachers of language - those who have the responsibility to teach writing and speech - need to offer those rules.
Holding the grammatical rules tightly as possible keeps language meaningful, whether it's Strunk and White, El Diccionario de la lengua española (from the Royal Spanish Academy, one of the most prescriptive grammarian groups I've worked with) or the Quechua. (BTW, Cochabamba is one of my favorite Bolivian cities. I've spent a great deal of time in Bolivia, in La Paz, Santa Cruz, Trinidad.)
Linguists do describe. But they sometimes what they describe is just a mess.
:evil:
Lawsuit_Boy
Veteran
The second sentence is more correct. Because of the "and" between desk and chair, they are collective, so the plural are is appropriate. BUT, since the article "a" is before "small desk," I recommend putting "a" before chair as well to make it 100%.
ullanta
Veteran
Kusa pacha wawqéy! Ichapis Los Angelesman chayamusqaykiqa, kay wasiypi sillp'anchuta mikhunakusuncheq a!
Manachu P'utoqsitataq (Potosi) reqsinki? Atinaykimanta pacha a reqsiq rinayki tiyanpuni!
ullanta
Veteran
Self-admittedly so! But the mess is the world we live in (the language we speak), "perfect" spoken language doesn't generally exist.
Mind you, I'm not disagreeing that grammar needs to be taught, corrected, etc. for the whole thing to work. It's what keeps us somewhat able to communicate. But what's "correct" will change over time, in response to what people actually say. "Correct grammar" is "correct right here and right now", and is always somewhat in transition.
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ullanta
Veteran
Well, I don't think you need to worry too much about that for this one example... though I'd go for an alternate phrasing to be perfectly clear (one that doesn't have the problematic extra verb, e.g., "The only things left are...").
But Your sentence is a great example for discussion!
David W. Richardson
Chapelgrove Films
I totally agree. But the line in question doesn't seem to be dialogue, it seems to be action/description -- and as such, it DOES need to be grammaticaly correct.
Whenever I'm faced with a situation like this, I just change the line into something that conveys the same information, but that I know is grammatically correct. Then I move on.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Quite possibly, and if they do, they'd likely not get too irritated by the transgression. Once you've read a few scripts, you find that so many are absolutely rife with misspellings, bad grammar and every other form of word-crime that matters like the one we're discussing become all but insignificant.
If you've ever participated in a peer scriptwriting review site like zoetrope.com you probably know what I mean. Some of the people who fancy themeselves "writers" there write absolutely horrifically.
Even many name-brand scripts I've read (most, actually, and I've read quite a few) have frequent misspellings and typos. It's rough out there...
MikeGunter
Well-known member
Hi,
However scripts finally make it to light, they should be well written.
The 7th grade teacher's warning (mine was Miss Miller) still applies, spelling counts. So does verb-subject agreement, proper antecedent with the pronoun, and much, much more.
In a former life, I began my work in the print media as a writer as well as still photographer to report stories. If the copy was poorly written, it got passed over quickly. Or better said, if I or my fellow reporters couldn't get the gist of the story in first 25 words, we wouldn't have another job to go on.
Later as an editor, my take was similar to the editors I worked under. My time was valuable enough, to me anyway, not to waste it on poorly written copy.
Writing is hard work. Anyone who doesn't think so, well, my hat's off to you. At least you've sold someone.
We'd like to think that in our world, we're non-judgmental, that it's the solely the power of the prose and the cadence of the words that pushes us. But that's a load of hooey. See a badly formed verb, bad usage, they're for there, alot for a lot, lack of a comma separating a compound sentence, and you'll be quick to spot someone who didn't listen to his or her Miss Miller in 7th Grade.
Dialog is different, but that's not the point. It never was. Writing is the point. Your cover letter will likely be just as important as the script that it accompanies. That letter will need to underline why the script is worth reading, why it matters, why the characters are worth caring about.
Why risk any distraction?
However scripts finally make it to light, they should be well written.
The 7th grade teacher's warning (mine was Miss Miller) still applies, spelling counts. So does verb-subject agreement, proper antecedent with the pronoun, and much, much more.
Having been on the receiving end, I would suggest that is a real concern every time anyone sends out anything for review.
In a former life, I began my work in the print media as a writer as well as still photographer to report stories. If the copy was poorly written, it got passed over quickly. Or better said, if I or my fellow reporters couldn't get the gist of the story in first 25 words, we wouldn't have another job to go on.
Later as an editor, my take was similar to the editors I worked under. My time was valuable enough, to me anyway, not to waste it on poorly written copy.
Writing is hard work. Anyone who doesn't think so, well, my hat's off to you. At least you've sold someone.
We'd like to think that in our world, we're non-judgmental, that it's the solely the power of the prose and the cadence of the words that pushes us. But that's a load of hooey. See a badly formed verb, bad usage, they're for there, alot for a lot, lack of a comma separating a compound sentence, and you'll be quick to spot someone who didn't listen to his or her Miss Miller in 7th Grade.
Dialog is different, but that's not the point. It never was. Writing is the point. Your cover letter will likely be just as important as the script that it accompanies. That letter will need to underline why the script is worth reading, why it matters, why the characters are worth caring about.
Why risk any distraction?